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  1. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 2:19pm

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     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bruce Lee: 'Godfather' of MMA?

    Came across this article and thought it migtht be of interest to some:http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Payin...hio.htm?isfa=1
    I think the term 'Godfather of MMA' might be a bit of a stretch. I suppose some credit needs to be given for the philosophy behind JKD. Surely, though, there must have been other fighters before Bruce Lee who came to similiar conclusions about the difficulty with confining oneself to a certain style?
    Is anyone aware of any documented cases (pre 21st century) of traditional stylists facing off with one another? Ie Sumo vs. Kung fu or Judo vs Karate etc.
    Obviously, it must have happened. I am just curious if anyone here has done some homework about the actual history of such events.How much information is out there on it. During the colonial era there must have been many instances of stylists from different nations squaring off against one another. Fearless (newer jet li film) is supposed to have been based on real events..so that is one recorded instance. Are there any others that people know of?
    Last edited by OZZ; 2/27/2007 3:54pm at .
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  2. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 3:30pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you're opening a **** storm with this, but good luck to you.

    I haven't looked into it very much, but I want to disagree with the premises that style vs. style must have happened in the past. Don't forget that the modern world takes transportation for granted - not so long ago, it would be probably for people living 20 miles from each other to live out their lives with no idea of each other's existence. In major metropolitan centers, such as London or Rome, I would expect there to be different 'coaches,' such as English boxing or whatever combat art was practiced in Rome, but I think the rivalries would have been between gyms rather than styles.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 3:37pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only thing I can give credit to Bruce Lee for is providing a bit of motivation to a bunch of fat-assed nutriders to get off the couch and into a group activity regardless of whether they LARP or not.

    That's just the power of Hollywood. How many swabbies did the Navy recruit to scrape barnacles stemming from "Top Gun" ?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  4. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 4:04pm

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     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am not trying to start some Bruce Lee nutriding thread..I think he did a lot more to hurt CMA in many ways than he did to help it.
    But I am intrigued with the idea of discovering actual documented style vs. style encounters in History. I think the conclusion that they 'never' happened until the ufc came along is absolutely absurd.
    Are we to think that rulers of various nations never put their 'champions' up against each other? For centuries? I highly doubt it.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  5. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 4:07pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    people were doing vale tudo in brazil and a few other places since before Lee was a glint in the milkmans eye. the gracies brought that kind of fighting to the publics view. end of story really
  6. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 4:39pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the conclusion that they 'never' happened until the ufc came along is absolutely absurd.
    I agree. I'm sure they did happen; I just don't think it was as popular as Hollywood makes it out.

    Are we to think that rulers of various nations never put their 'champions' up against each other? For centuries? I highly doubt it.
    This isn't a historically sound statement. I've never heard of leaders pitting their champions against each other until the Olympics. I'll check with my wife (the archaeologist) and a few history buff friends of mine, but this sounds Hollywoodish to me.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  7. SpringHeeledJack is offline
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    Diabolical Physiognomy

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 4:45pm


     Style: Boxing; Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was one case I can think of when John Smith was put against some Turkish champions (on three consecutive days), and decapitated all three. I'm not so sure this is the kind of nation-pitting-champion-against-champion that is referred to in this thread though.


    Now lovely Lucifer, in hell so stark
    King, and lord of sin and pride
    With some mist his wits make dark.
    He send thee grace to be thy guide


    HE LOOKS LIKE A TINY BEAR MIXED WITH A CAT, AND THAT IS THE MEANEST ANIMAL MIXTURE EVER, BEAR FOR FUCKING STRENGTH, AND CAT FOR FUCKING MEAN!!! ************.

  8. meataxe is offline
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    International Man of Pancakes

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 4:49pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    people were doing vale tudo in brazil and a few other places since before Lee was a glint in the milkmans eye. the gracies brought that kind of fighting to the publics view. end of story really
    Beat me to it... Plus, lei tai matches were often style vs. style challenges going back 100's of years. I can only assume that style vs. style matches started shortly after there was more than one "style" competing for fame/glory/students.
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 5:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let us not forget Jigoro Kano's efforts at creating a level and safe playing field so different groups can meet up and test what they are made of.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 9:12pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interstyle matches were common around the turn of the 20th century, throughout North America, Europe and also the Pacific rim.

    To some extent the "MMA" phenomemon of the late 1800s and early 1900s was due to the pioneering efforts of E.W. Barton-Wright. He was the English engineer who introduced jiujitsu to the Western world, being the first known European to teach the art. He also went several steps beyond that by combining the basics of ko-ryu jiujitsu and early Kodokan judo that he had learned in Japan with French savate, English boxing and wrestling and Swiss/French stick fighting. This resulted in his own eclectic self defense system/sport, which he called Bartitsu (a combination of the first syllable of his own surname, and the last two syllables of "jiujitsu").

    Barton-Wright also promoted challenge matches throughout England, pitting his French, Swiss and Japanese champions against all comers in mixed-styles combat. Bartitsu Club instructors Yukio Tani, Sadekazu Uyenishi and Armand Cherpillod had huge success in mixed-style wrestling matches during the early years of the 1900s.

    Further afield, there are plenty of records of mixed-styles contests in the post-Bartitsu era between 1904-1920; savate vs. jiujitsu contests in Paris, savate vs. boxing, jiujitsu/judo vs. boxing, jiujitsu vs. wrestling, etc. I can pull up the specific cites if you're interested in the details.
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