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  1. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Ontario, Canada
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 2:40pm


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Minimalist Weight routine - terrible idea?

    I like to do weight training, because I enjoy lifting and also I like the benefits I start seeing after a few weeks. But I don't really have the time or patience to do the kind of routines I usually see in boxing manuals or fitness websites, where you have like 15-25 different exercises you're supposed to do to have a complete workout.

    Personally, I like to go to the gym, do 5 x 5 on the bench press with pretty high weight, then do as many sets of 10 pull-ups as I can, then stretch. When I'm at home I do six sets of 20 pushups with 60 second intervals, then 4 minutes of putting my hands under my butt and elevating my legs and shoulders while lying on my back (looking at getting an ab wheel now that I'm only wokring endurance instead of strength with that), then maybe 30 hindu squats with no weight or maybe a 10 pound weight if I'm in the mood.

    Just today the doc said I can start jogging again, so I also add in say 15 minutes of jogging before my workout.

    Does this sound okay, or am I going to have some big problems because I'm not doing reverse dumbell fly's or standing reverse olympic clean-and-jerk dumbell triple deltoid elevations?

    P.S: I eat right and take a whey supplement with some milk after my pushups and squats.
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  2. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Minot AFB, ND
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 3:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Needs weighted squats.

    My routines consist of 3 compound lifts and maybe some neck and grip work.

    EG:

    Day 1
    Squat/Bench/Pull-up

    Day 2
    Deadlift/Overhead Press/Dips

    Alternate between day 1 and day 2 MWF.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 4:02pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, yes. You are going to have problems if you don't incorporate some revese flys (ok, rear delt work). Structural balance, sir. It's all the rage these days.
  4. Bang! is offline
    Bang!'s Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 4:18pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I should elaborate. To avoid injury -- in this case, shoulder impingement, among other things -- you need to balance what you're doing. One doesn't have to get overly detailed about functional anatomy . . . If you push, you should pull, if you raise, you should lower . . . **** like that. Try to incorporate opposing movements, i.e. rows (you can even superset them with your BP).
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 4:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Needs weighted squats.

    My routines consist of 3 compound lifts and maybe some neck and grip work.

    EG:

    Day 1
    Squat/Bench/Pull-up

    Day 2
    Deadlift/Overhead Press/Dips

    Alternate between day 1 and day 2 MWF.
    +rep. That's a good routine you have there. I'd prefer front squats over regular ones, though. And I'm avoiding bench presses cuz my shoulders are shitty (but anyone who can should do them)

    Epicurus, what Emevas said. You need some big iron in your routine. When I'm really pressed with time (which I usually am), I just do front squats. But whenever I can get some barbell rows or deadlifts in them, I'm a happy bunny.

    When you stick to basic, compound exercises, you get most of the work you need. Every once in a while you can do some shoulder raises, bicep curls or **** like that, and be done with it in 10 minutes. That's what I keep my weights at home for. When I go to the gym is to do the stuff I cannot do at home.

    Doing so saves me a lot of time and makes my weightlifting simpler and more enjoyable. It works for me... but that begs the question...

    What exactly are your fitness goals? Do you have anything specific in mind?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 4:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a fan of the big 3 (although I could do without bench. I'm thinking of switching my program around a little bit, getting rid of bench, moving dips to day 1, and throwing in a set of bent over rows on day 2).
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  7. DaveTart is offline

    Featherweight

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    Feb 2007
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 4:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Lau Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Epicurus
    I like to do weight training, because I enjoy lifting and also I like the benefits I start seeing after a few weeks. But I don't really have the time or patience to do the kind of routines I usually see in boxing manuals or fitness websites, where you have like 15-25 different exercises you're supposed to do to have a complete workout.
    I suggest you read this: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/L...eTraining.html

    Then with the time you save not doing all the sets in the world you'll have time to do a complete workout. You can design full body and split programmes using the templates here: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Instructions.html

    Enjoy!
  8. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Outer Fucking Space.
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 12:16am


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You don't need a large amount of exercises in your routine, just remember, if you push, pull. Include things like your shin and rotator cuffs in your warmup, and make sure your doing the exercises right. What's that? You want an excerpt from my now completed program to clear things up? OK!

    "Another thing is that the bench press is overemphasized in most men's workouts. How often do you press something away from you with both hands? Stop trying to train your macho muscles, and train how you fight. There should be no training "muscles". There should only be "Performance Training", training specificity towards your goal, sport or hobby in question. Ask yourself how much your training looks and feels like your sport. Ask yourself again everytime you workout. When you drift too far away, just come back to the basics. You know what they are:

    Doing your sport w/weight, doing your sport under band tension(hooked to whatever angle you wish to strengthen), as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Seperating the movements that occur during your sport into seperate exercises and performing them w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedly, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Doing basic exercises that mimic everyday actions w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedely, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Doing prehabilitation(injury prevention) exercises for freak occurances in the sport and aiding in everyday life w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedely, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Strengthening body reaction muscles that directly aid your sport w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedely, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    And plain old doing your sport, concentrating and really doing it, not going through the motions, digging deep and going as hard as you can. Paying attention and listening to every word from those who know more than you about it, taking lessons, and always asking for help on something that you know not about. Don't stray too far from the basics, and always look at your workout and see if it runs like your sport. Does it go as fast? Are the movements the same, or close? Let's hope you know the difference.

    Simply put, there is no "phase" to go through to gain enough muscle for your sport. You train for your sport. Yes, punching with dumbells or wrist weights is generally retarded, because you'll develop muscle patterns that hold the weight up and resist the new gravitational pull formed downward and cause an overcorrection when the time comes to punch an opponent without weight.

    By the way, the weight I speak of is supplied by bands or a weight vest. Grapple with your own self made grappling dummy with a weight vest on, and it'll simulate how heavy you feel when the going gets tough. Nothing has changed except your perceived bodyweight. Result? Speed and specific strength."

    And another one

    "Forms of Movement: Clean and Jerk. Getting something from ground level to shoulders with minimal effort.
    Exercises: Power Clean, Squat Clean, Split Clean, Dumb/Kettlebell Clean, Hang Clean, Clean Pulls, Power Jerk, Split Jerk, Dumb/Kettlebell Jerk, Combinations.

    Forms of Movement: Snatch. Getting something from ground level to overhead with minimal muscular effort and movements.
    Exercises: Power Snatch, Full Snatch, Hang Snatch, Dumb/Kettlebell Snatch, Split Snatch, Snatch Pulls, Drop Snatch, One Arm Barbell Snatch.

    Forms of Movement: Squat. Going from standing to squatting or lunging position with minimal muscular effort.
    Exercises: Power, Front, Overhead, Olympic, Box, Quarter, Rack, Hack, Dumb/Kettlebell, Zercher, Pistols, Lunges.

    Forms of Movement: Deadlift. Getting something off the ground with minimal muscular effort.
    Exercises: Conventional, Sumo, Partial, RDL, Single Leg, Goodmornings, Swings, Suitcase, Thick Bar, Snatch Grip.

    Forms of Movement: Overhead Press: Getting something from shoulders to overhead with minimal muscular effort.
    Exercises: Bar/Dumb/Kettlebell, Military, Behind/Front of Body, Push Press, Seesaw, One Arm, Rack, Alternating, Bradfords, Windmills, Side Press, Bent Press.

    Forms or Movement: Bench Press: Getting something off your chest or pushing something away from the body with minimal muscular effort.
    Exercises: Wide/Medium/Close Grips, Board, Rack, Floor, Dumb/Kettlebell, Alternating, Push Up Variations, Dips.

    Forms of Movement: Upper Body Pulling: Pulling with upper body.
    Exercises: Chin/Pull Up Variations, Ropes/Thick Bars/Towels, Cable Rowing, Bar/Dumb/Kettlebell Rows, Seesaw, Renegade, Rope Pulls.

    Forms of Movement: Carrying and Throwing: Self Explainatory.
    Exercises: Farmer's Walk, Zercher, Overhead, Shoulder, Yoke Carry, Water Ball, Clean, Deadlift, Bar/Dumb/Kettlebell/Keg/Sangbag, Through Cones, Overhead/Forward Throws, Rotational Throws.

    Remember how you move. Move."

    As you can see, the basics are what need to be defined. Push, then Pull, remember how you move. Carrying movements build all your stabilizing muscles. People don't carry too often, and they put all their emphasis on pushing, and that's what leads to muscular imbalances right there. Do you pull a lot or push a lot in your sport? Pull more for grappling, push more for striking. Remember time under tension. You can't let the opponent go or you'll lose control in a match, so do complexes for your workouts. Push, pull, carry, and throw and never set the weight down until the end, then rest. Just sme quick tips.
  9. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Ontario, Canada
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    1,492

    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 1:01am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the advice. Emevas' rouitine sounds about my speed and level of finnicky-ness.

    My fitness goals are to be in good shape for boxing and some kicking, as well as grappling. Functional strength is imporant, esp. upper body, but looking good doesn't hurt (extra motivation).
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  10. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 1:20am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you wanna still run the 5X5 on that routine, here's my advice.

    Do two weeks of 5X5. On the third week, you want to deload. Do only 70% of the volume (so either 3X5 or 5X3) while still keeping the same weight that you can do. This gives your muscles some active recovery, because the low rep range is gonna be very taxing on your CNS. After that week of deloading, go right back into it. I typically can increase either the weight 10lbs on a lift or the reps to a full 5X5 after a deload. Repeat this cycle for as long as you are on the routine.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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