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  1. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 1:57pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think a huge problem regarding application comes in when folks begin to confuse the intentions of the form. Roughly a form can fall into one of the following categories with the understanding that there are more than a few that can straddle categories.

    a.Performance: Practically any form developed after 1950.
    b.Training: TAIKYOKU, PINAN/HEIAN, and NAIFANCHI/TEKKI are good examples here.
    c. Conditioning: SANCHIN and TAISHO as being among the best known kata of this sort.
    d. Combat: SEISAN, CHINTO, ANAKU, KUSHANKU

    I hope this is of some help. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  2. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 2:02pm

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     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Forgive the murder of the names, the kata in our system are:

    Geicho 1-3

    Pinan 1-3

    Nihanchi 1-(4?)

    Bassi (not sure how many)

    Gento

    as I said, I have only gone so far.

    Have you seen the book Secrets of Shotokan? The author explores his interpretation of the original intent of several of the Kata as they related to protecting the Okenawan King during the Japanese occupation. I found it interesting, but I loaned it to mt instructor. Therefore please don't ask me any details, all I can recall accurately are the general themes.
    Last edited by FickleFingerOfFate; 3/01/2007 2:06pm at .
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  3. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 4:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
    Nope. What you do is crush their head in, then grab their chin and twist, breaking the neck (In case, y'know, the smashed in head thing doesn't kill him) then pivot and throw the body across the legs at the guy charging like a linebacker at you from 30 yards away.
    Hmmm.

    Well, here we have it - the hidden techniques re-appear...

    What looks straightforward is the deadly hermeneutic circle.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  4. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 4:42pm

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     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Hmmm.

    Well, here we have it - the hidden techniques re-appear...

    What looks straightforward is the deadly hermeneutic circle.
    There's rumor to the effect that I am a reasonably intelligent person,

    But I only understand about half of your references.

    [continues sulking]
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  5. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 5:57pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The hermeneutic circle refers to the difficulty of establishing any definite interpretation of something.

    For example, to understand Plato, you have to understand classical Greek society, thought, art, politics, and so on. But to understand these, you have to understand the texts, like Plato. But to understand these...you get the idea.

    It's not so much a paradox, as a spiral of sorts - you keep circling in toward the truth, to-and-fro between text and context, parts and whole.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  6. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 6:38pm

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     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    The hermeneutic circle refers to the difficulty of establishing any definite interpretation of something.

    For example, to understand Plato, you have to understand classical Greek society, thought, art, politics, and so on. But to understand these, you have to understand the texts, like Plato. But to understand these...you get the idea.

    It's not so much a paradox, as a spiral of sorts - you keep circling in toward the truth, to-and-fro between text and context, parts and whole.
    Ah, a mobius strip of sorts, I get it now.

    Thanks.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  7. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 8:37pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    The hermeneutic circle refers to the difficulty of establishing any definite interpretation of something.

    For example, to understand Plato, you have to understand classical Greek society, thought, art, politics, and so on. But to understand these, you have to understand the texts, like Plato. But to understand these...you get the idea.

    It's not so much a paradox, as a spiral of sorts - you keep circling in toward the truth, to-and-fro between text and context, parts and whole.
    Admittedly I'm going way off topic.....

    But, the very principle is flawed. Human agents themselves make meaning, and that meaning holds the relevence through which understanding is reached.

    To move it into my area of speciality (so I don't look like a complete idiot), the theory posits that context must be understood before meaning can be achieved. However, if someone takes a British film based on the class system (something not understood by the American audience), an understanding of the context can be a hinderance if the context subsumes the place of the meaning. For example Brassed Off is a British film set in a working class coal mining community, if the viewer analyses the class structure in the film from a detached academic point of view (i.e. having not lived and understood the class system themselves), then analysis with an understanding of the context could actually be aberrent from the intended meaning of the piece.

    This post brought to you by the cheapest bottle of wine available to my local supermarket.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  8. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 8:52pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What you've just said confirms the hermeneutic circle, particularly as understood by phenomenological hermeneuticists.

    I vote you PM me with a longer argument.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  9. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 8:54pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    What you've just said confirms the hermeneutic circle, particularly as understood by phenomenological hermeneuticists.

    I vote you PM me with a longer argument.
    I vote you PM me and explain all the words in this post.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  10. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 8:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    What you've just said confirms the hermeneutic circle, particularly as understood by phenomenological hermeneuticists.

    I vote you PM me with a longer argument.
    Guys, We are still discussing Kata, Right?

    'cause my head just exploded.

    If I grasped this at all, and I'm not sure I did, you're both basically saying that to understand the meaning of the Kata, one must understand the sociopolitical environment under which it was developed.

    If that is true the book I mentioned would be an excellent example.


    If not, I look like an Idiot across 3 continents right now.

    How am I doing so far, or should I consider that one way ticket back to the KMA forum?
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


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