2/28/2007 10:53pm, #51Originally Posted by DAYoung
He's saving his pennies, something about a contract with MJS.
Hey Tom, I'll kick in the $150.00 if you can make it happen.
2/28/2007 11:03pm, #52
Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
My reasoning behind my view on bunkai is based on the translation of bunkai which roughly translates to "analysis". So to me bunkai is the analysis of kata. And while one can easily analyze anything, without context to put it in place the data collected and reviewed cannot be acccurately viewed.
For example, say you never saw a car before. I could produce a car and stick it in front of you. You could analyze it until you've picked it through inch by inch. But until you know it's intended function and how it would work, how would you know what is significant or not?
Just out of curiousity, what is your definition of bunkai?
Shuto is just a hand formation.
You're probably referrring to shuto-uke.
People don't use shuto-uke in a sparring situation because either A) they aren't taught to use it, or B) they are taught to use it wrong.
Look at how a boxer learns to cover and slip a punch and then respond. Think of how many lessons need to be learn and attributes need to be developed in order to successfully slip a punch and respond.
The application of a shuto-uke is fairly similar. Now train it like a boxer. First off, your conditioning needs to be developed. You're going to need to learn footwork. You'll need to learn how to judge distance, maintain distance, learn how to see the punch coming. All of this before you can learn how to actually receive the punch accordingly.
This is also assuming you actually know how a shuto-uke is supposed to be applied in an alive setting, and not against another kata dancer coming at you with a lunge punch.
Technique existed before kata.
Kata was created to record technique.
Kata was not created so people could look at it and say, "hm...I can come up with a technique that explains those motions."
Kata is intended to be a moving syllabus in place of a written one, created in a culture of secrecy for an art that used to be completely closed door and passed on only from teacher to student.
The kata is a textbook, a syllabus. Just moving along with it, with or without a partner still is not teaching you how to fight.
Originally Posted by FickleFingerofFate
Heck you can even use other areas of life for similar examples. Laws were around before lawyers. But a lawyers job (no offense to any lawyers if I'm wrong) is to examine and interpret the laws laid out before them. Each one looks at the same laws given to them and says "hmm, I can come up with a different interpretation of these motions" (sorry for the bad pun).
2/28/2007 11:48pm, #53Originally Posted by DAYoung
It looks okay from my end. If you could, take a screen grab of this post and PM it to me in an attachment with a brief description of what you see as wrong.
:smile:Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
"Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ
"Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken
My Bullshido fan club threads:
Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
ATTN TOM KAGAN
World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
3/01/2007 12:25am, #54Originally Posted by kickcatcher
That head smash is actually supposed to indent the temple 2-3 inches into the brain causing instant death.
Disclaimer: I didn't read any of the other posts.
3/01/2007 12:28am, #55Originally Posted by WorldWarCheeseMartial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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3/01/2007 12:52am, #56Originally Posted by DAYoung
3/01/2007 10:33am, #57Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
I consider TKD Korean Karate. So your opinion still applies. go for it.
3/01/2007 11:06am, #58
Kata = The "style" of the MA ( the syllabus)
Technique = The individual actions
Bunkai = The concept of which Technique applies to a certain situation
Kata teaches technique
Training and sparring teach Bunkai
techniques are the same (within reason) for everyone
Bunkai changes with the body type and abilities of the people involved.
People who practice technique without regard to bunkai are not learning all of the martial art. The people who learn the Bunkai thet works for them are much more rounded in their studies of their MA.
[This is how I have come to understand it, and is by no means an expert opinion]
3/01/2007 11:15am, #59
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
I'm not surpised folks are having trouble. I seem to be reading that all forms are the same regardless of the art or intentions of the originator. Its no wonder that there is little or no agreement about applications. My guess is that folks may want to expand their understanding of what kata are about rather than just make blanket statements, yes? For instance, are most folks aware that there are generally four different categories of forms, and that the "applications" (K. "Bunseok") vary accordingly? Thoughts?
3/01/2007 11:35am, #60Originally Posted by glad2bhere
I am aware that different Ma's have some unique kata, and some cross over (sometimes with a name difference). I unfortunately only know the ones we are taught (TKD/TSD based) and not even all of them, as I have not attained enough rank to have been shown all of them.
I do read in addition to training, but I have found that reading or watching video on a kata is no substitute for being taught what it should feel like when done correctly.
Any enlightenment on the subject is greatly appreciated, I believe everyone has a unique perspective, and know I have plenty to learn.