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  1. KirkSpockMcCoy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 11:22am


     Style: Shotokan Karate-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Rob Redmond of 24 Fighting Chickens a Fake Karate Expert?

    Hi Guys,

    I would say 24 Fighting Chickens (www.24fightingchickens.com), popular karate website, is a lot of crap. Rob Redmond heavily edits all the replies to his articles, so that it appears as if he always wins the argument. I have posted very good points contrary to his views and he deletes them without warning, in order to avoid his embarrassment.

    I also wonder about whether he really knows what he is talking about, because oftentimes his thoughts seem to come from someone who isn't even proficient enough to deserve a blackbelt. One example is his lack of understanding of the use of hikite, he thinks it has no value and only represents pulling the opponent towards you, forgetting that it plays a strong role in the overall rotation of the torso. Also, Rob has NEVER posted anything on his site to demonstrate that he has good karate skills. He has never posted himself in action, whether in photos or video doing some basic technique or kata. All he does is talk karate but there is no demonstration that he can do as well as talk. If ever you meet this guy in person, I bet if you have the chance to see it, he probably can't even do his basics properly. Feel free to kick his diabetic ass.

    Also, it is clear to me now that Rob engages in Shotokan bashing just to gain attention for himself, maybe even to earn extra income. Recently he has been heavily promoting his 'Kata' book, a pictureless e-book expensive at 25 dollars! Pretty expensive consdidering he incurs no publishing and papaer costs! This guy is full of ****.
      #1
  2. Elky is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 11:45am


     Style: Shotokan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rob is generally very explicit that what he posts is just his opinion (aside from the stuff on Japanese customs, which he is likely to know about conclusively from having lived in Japan).

    I think you're maybe misinterpreting what Rob does - he doesn't claim to be teh d34dly or to want to fight you - he plays devil's advocate and criticizes a lot of elements of karate that maybe need criticizing.

    When I was a karate noob, I found quite a lof of his old site quite dispiriting because it broke down a lot of the stuff that I liked to believe in. But I came to agree with him on quite a bit of what he says. I don't agree that kata should be performance art (although again, he states that this is explicitly what he was taught while training in Japan) but much of his cynicism is warranted.

    I love shotokan and have trained in it for years, but there's nothing wrong with taking a critical look at it every now and then. And to be fair, a lot of what he posts is a bit more considered that what you hear here at Bullshido (:icon_eek:) - LOL SHOTOKAN, Tippy-tappy, etc etc etc

    Oh, and yes, he's a big capitalist and I wouldn't buy his book for 25 dollars but again, I'm sure if you asked him he'd be happy to admit to being a big capitalist.
      #2
  3. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 12:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just found something pretty ridiculous in his article about contracts. I'm going to comment and see how he responds.

    Edit:
    Article snippet:
    There is another solution. Every Karate club should open a PayPal account and an account with Google Checkout. When students arrive at the school and havenít paid yet, have them sit at the PC in the office and PayPal money or use Google Checkout to pay with a credit card right there, and then allow them to join the class. There is no need any longer for these contracts and billing services to mail out paper bills and collect on people after they quit, not as long as you provide excellent service and have a PC on the premises.
    My comment
    Your idea of having a person sit at a PC and enter PayPal or Google Checkout information has just as much if not more potential for abuse than a paper contract. Entering financial information and passwords into an untrusted machine is dangerous since anyone could simply run a keylogger in the background and give your information to a third party. With a paper contract it's much less difficult to hold someone accountable for fraud.
    I actually had to rewrite that since it somehow disappeared thirty seconds after I posted it.
    Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 2/21/2007 12:43pm at .
      #3
  4. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 3:30pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rob only says he's a third degree Black Belt is Shotokan. He does not represent himself as a skilled fighter, and his articles are pretty interesting and informative. While he did not consider a key logger, his intent, to provide a way to pay for martial arts services without entering into contracts or providing credit card information to a school is quite valid.

    Certainly there are people in Texas who wish they never provided their credit card information to Tiger Clay.
      #4
  5. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 3:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used to post on his forums back in the 90s quite a bit. I don't think Rob considers himself and expert but he is very opionated, nothing wrong with that. We've always had good disscussions on the state of Shotokan and Karate in general even though I didn't always agree with him or Elmar I never got the impression that they felt they were always right considering we had very similar experiences.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
      #5
  6. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 3:47pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    Hi Guys,

    I would say 24 Fighting Chickens (www.24fightingchickens.com), popular karate website, is a lot of crap.
    Kind of like your entire first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    Rob Redmond heavily edits all the replies to his articles, so that it appears as if he always wins the argument.
    His site. His prerogative.

    Do you have proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    I have posted very good points contrary to his views and he deletes them without warning, in order to avoid his embarrassment.
    I'd be embarrased if you were vomiting your crap on my site too.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    I also wonder about whether he really knows what he is talking about, because oftentimes his thoughts seem to come from someone who isn't even proficient enough to deserve a blackbelt.
    What are your qualifications to judge his knowledge?

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    One example is his lack of understanding of the use of hikite, he thinks it has no value and only represents pulling the opponent towards you, forgetting that it plays a strong role in the overall rotation of the torso.
    Which is actually a valid and researched opinion shared by many karate practitioners, especially those who practice bunkai rather than just kata dancing.

    It is entirely possible to throw a powerful punch without resorting to withdrawing the opposite hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    Also, Rob has NEVER posted anything on his site to demonstrate that he has good karate skills.
    You have never posted anything on this site to demonstrate you have any skill in anything.

    And your screen name sucks too.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    He has never posted himself in action, whether in photos or video doing some basic technique or kata.
    And your point is?

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    If ever you meet this guy in person, I bet if you have the chance to see it, he probably can't even do his basics properly. Feel free to kick his diabetic ass.
    He's a Shotokant. Of course I'd kick his ass.

    I'd likely also kick yours, but then, as I am a compassionate man, I don't believe in beating on the mentally disabled.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    Also, it is clear to me now that Rob engages in Shotokan bashing just to gain attention for himself, maybe even to earn extra income.
    Valid reasons to Shoto-bash, but you forgot the most important reason.

    Fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkSpockMcCoy
    This guy is full of ****.
    Which makes him no different from you.

    Have a nice day.:spam4:
      #6
  7. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 3:50pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no personal experience with him, but this is some of the best stuff I've ever read on the topic of MA for self-defense. It's orders of magnitude more clear-headed than the twaddle most TMA types spew, and it's probably the reason he draws attackers such as the thread starter:

    http://www.24fightingchickens.com/20...-self-defense/

    Just as karate training cannot provide you with the ability to overcome your startle reflex and block every attack from every angle as if psychic, it is also not a secret, magical system that can be employed to help the meek overpower the strong, much to every small personís disappointment. What karate training really does is take a person with a potential of 100% and a current output of 50% and teach them to achieve output of 80-90%. Karate training is about using what you have and getting more out of it.

    If you are a 90 pound weakling, you can learn to get more out of your 90 pounds by increasing your speed, flexibility, distancing, and timing. But that does not mean that you will therefore be a superior fighter to those who are not trained in karate. It merely means you will be better than you used to be. That might not be enough. You will increase the range of people that you are able to defend yourself against, but that range will still have limitations based upon your size, strength, aggressiveness, skill, and the same qualities in your opponent.
    ...

    I believe it best to explain to new students that karate training will help them get more from what they already have, and therefore I will push them to go beyond what they believe their limits are. However, I also remind them that they still have actual limits, and that we will not be able to go beyond them.

    This brings up the issue of gender in fighting. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general, men have some distinct advantages over women as fighters: They are naturally more aggressive and risk-taking. On average, men have more pounds of muscle mass as a percentage of body weight. Men generally have larger, stronger bones. Men have superior spatial perception on average. The average man is faster, stronger, meaner, and more naturally inclined to have distancing and timing skills than the average woman. These generalizations are politically incorrect to acknowledge these days, and because of that, some karate instructors refuse to believe it.

    When making any generalization, the first objection that someone will make is always that they know of an exception. Yes, there are tiny, weak, cowardly men and there are large, muscular, aggressive, steroid-using women out there, and those women can probably break those men over their knees like twigs. But the generalization holds. Most women, facing a man, bring much less to the fight, and therefore have lower chances of success.

    I was very unhappy to come to grips with the fact that my size and relative strength were not going to be limits I could overcome completely with karate training. But, I have come to accept that I have certain limits.
    ....

    The karate industry has done nothing to dispel the myth of the small, weak person taking up karate and being able to overcome an entire gang of bullies. That is probably because if potential customers learn that they can take karate lessons for ten years and still lose a fight to a high school football player, they might not sign up for karate classes. Instead, they might invest in a gun and take tennis lessons.
    ...

    The bad news is that most of the bad guys out there are bad all day long, every day, their whole lives through. Most bad guys are seasoned experts at intimidation and violence. For them, itís their daily mugging, their regular bar fight that they like to start, or their usual dose of bullying someone weaker than they. For you, itís a once in a lifetime attack that you are praying you will survive. The willingness to do evil and the enjoyment of making others suffer combined with a bad guyís superior experience is usually enough to give him a huge advantage that you will have a hard time overcoming.

    Letís face it: bad guys are typically poor males with almost nothing to lose. Most of the folks who take up karate are middle or upper class people who cannot afford so much as a black eye in the conference room the next morning. The victim who has everything to lose has a mind full of consequences from a proper upbringing. The deck is stacked against the person who can afford karate lessons.

    But there is more good news. Most bad guys perpetrate their crimes against other bad guys, or against people who have demographics different from those who typically sign up for karate lessons. The typical middle class person who is afraid of being mugged is actually very unlikely to ever be mugged during his life.

    Before considering taking up karate lessons for self defense, I believe it is a better idea to consider self-defense first, and then decide whether or not karate training will help. And when I think of self-defense, the first thing that comes to mind is not jumping through the air throwing karate techniques. It is prevention, because prevention is the best defense.

    Self-defense means to protect yourself. I believe we can best protect ourselves without challenging every would-be bad guy that dares to offend our sensitive nature. Some of these rules should be pretty obvious. Donít make obscene gestures at motorcycle gangs on the freeway. Donít cut people off in traffic. Allow entering vehicles to merge onto the highway. Donít go to dangerous places where people are drinking and doing drugs. Donít let yourself be surrounded by irresponsible people. Donít go places after dark alone. Keep a very alert way about you, and donít be afraid to ask for an escort or call out for help when you are intimidated. Donít go to grocery stores at night, and donít go jogging alone in bad neighborhoods. Stay out of convenience stores. Keep your car well-maintained, and check the tires, oil, and gas daily.

    No matter the martial art, it is probably not going to pay off in benefits of self defense equal to the cost of you going to class regularly for years.

    No matter the martial art, it is probably not going to pay off in benefits of self defense equal to the cost of you going to class regularly for years. It is a comical tragedy that so many people spend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours sweating and suffering, punching and kicking in funny white pajamas for years in order to defend themselves when simply choosing a safer lifestyle would have solved their problems with little more than slight inconvenience.

    Most people will be attacked once in their lifetimes. Usually this encounter is not life threatening. Usually it can be avoided or survived simply by preparing properly and offering a violent resistance of any kind. Karate will improve your chances, if you train ďfor realĒ for a decade, but it will not equalize the playing field necessarily. It all depends on who you are and who the attacker is. Thatís where your odds are generated.

    Karate training can give you a little more of what youíve already got, but not so much more than you will become some sort of death machine or professional assassin. Karate certainly can accentuate your ability to defend yourself, and it is one of many combined reasons that most people have for doing karate. But as the only reason, it is perhaps not the best one for everyone.
      #7
  8. 24FC is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 4:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi, everyone.

    I don't know that I can contribute anything to this discussion, really. Everything anyone here would be interested to know about me is on my site. My body of writing is fairly direct in style and should tell anyone what they would want to know about my martial arts training.

    I am certainly no full-contact fighter and never claimed that ever. I'm 39 years old, 185 pounds, 6 feet tall, and I train almost exclusively alone these days due to time and distance constraints. I have two children (boys) - one 5, the other 1, who are too young imo to join me in a Karate class, so I don't really have time to get away from the job and house to hit it at a dojo these days. I train in my basement five days a week for 30-45 minute stretches. Mostly I do Shotokan basics and kata - the purpose of that training is to elevate my heart rate and dispense of blood sugar as I have type 1 diabetes and heart attack/stroke/circulation problems are my most dangerous opponent these days.

    Even when I was in my top form, however, I was a mediocre Shotokan point fighter. I just don't believe I have the genetics to be a really successful tournament competitor.

    That being said, I don't really view a Shotokan point fighter as a "fighter." More like an athletic competitor. It's not really fighting when no one has teeth knocked out, is it?

    I don't recommend kata as performance art only. I say that the Japanese do them that way. I don't recommend kata as anything in particular. I recommend an individualist approach and that each person take from their Karate training (or any other experience) what they want and what suits their own individual purposes - not what some book, organization, or instructor says you should.

    If you like having teeth knocked out - more power to you. If you like training with kids and barely breaking a sweat, good for you. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me how people do martial arts.

    The anonymous poster above is correct that I deleted a couple of his comments, and now he is restricted from posting further. I generally take a disliking to anyone that posts repeated demands that I do what they say on my web site. This guy has logged in as multiple people on my site over the last six months, and during our recent email exchange said some unkind things that led me to no longer want to waste my time on him. I don't remove comments to make myself "look good."

    If I cared about looking good, I probably wouldn't have a cartoon chicken for a symbol.

    Imagine that - a guy with a "You guys doing Shotokan act like dorks sometimes" web site being a lightning rod for karate psychopaths. WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT?

    Batman, your comments were initially caught in the same trap I set for his comments, but I've refined it and released your remarks - and I disagreed with them. ;)

    Bullshido is a great web site. We all have some important principles in common, some things not in common, but I have a lot more respect for rudely standing up in the face of thoughtless doctrine and BS claims than I do for swallowing the Karate Kool-Aid and becoming a zombie.

    You guys rock! Keep up the good work.

    LOL!
      #8
  9. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 4:49pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome Rob:

    You'll notice that I have several links to your site in a FAQ we're working on.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...19#post1224719

    Since you have some fluency in Japanese, have you ever seen an explaination by Gichin Funakoshi for why he adopted the Black Belt into what became Shotokan?

    I'm interested since there is a whole sales pitch built around signing a long term contract to obtain such rank.

    It would be useful to know what Funakoshi's stated goals for this innovation was, just as it would be useful to know Kano's stated reasons for creating this recognition of rank.
      #9
  10. 24FC is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 5:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Funakoshi adopted it because Kano was doing it, and he wanted to fit in and lookedu up to Kano, but he doesn't really say why. I don't know why Kano did it.

    BTW, thanks for the compliment of referencing my site in your FAQ!
    Last edited by 24FC; 2/21/2007 5:18pm at .
      #10
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