The Judo head in collar/neck grip
In case people here don't use the same name for it, I'm talking about the grip where your right hand grips the opponents left lapel, the left hand underhooks their right arm and you drive your head into the neck or collar and use the arm round the back to clamp down the grip, your feet here being slightly offset so the left one is forward typically.
How do people establish this grip in stand up work? I'm just curioes because I have found I have quite a bit of success attacking from this position when I can get it but I tend to have trouble in actually getting the grip around the back of whoever I'm fighting so I was wondering how you guys do it?
I find that I get the lapel grip easily enough but then when I look to try and punch my arm around to take a grip on their back people become very wary and tend to jam my attempts by gripping the sleeve and they attack me with foot sweeps while I try to set this up.
I have no clue what your talking about.
Got any pics to illustrate this?
I've got a picture in my head of what you described, but I can't ever remember seeing it done in Judo.
I second that.
Originally Posted by jkartigue
It doesn't sound like a position I would want to be in for a long time standing, as your asking for a kosoto/ kouchi etc etc **** I would counter very quickly with a forward techniquge (sode?) if you had your feet forward and were coming my way.
I can see what you mean as a position while your in transition for a few techniques, but only in deep jigotai would I consider this position as advantagous to me in anyway at all, and I'd be quick about attacking aswell.
Can't find any pics of it on the net :-(
Was discussing this in my trainning log and sophist said:
Is that a better description/name?
head-to-shoulder and deep grip is my preferred tachiwaza control
Edit: Also looking back at my original description I'm not sure if underhook is the right way to describe it, the grip is under there arm but it goes deep and grips the Gi at the small of the back or the obi., prefference is for the loose Gi if possible to avoid having a time limit.
Last edited by ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE; 2/21/2007 11:41am at .
I'm not sure now that we're talking about the same thing.
In the training log I'm talking about a really deep koshi-guruma style grip - instead of grabbing a handful of gi round the back, I reach right through with my right hand going over the shoulder and back under the armpit, sort of like an arm triangle from the wrong direction, and tuck my head across their shoulder if I can get it in. I control their wrist/elbow with my left hand though, and have my right foot slightly forward. From there I can attack with harai-goshi, osoto-gari, trap their foot ko-uchi fashion and ankle pick if they start to retreat, "Ozman" if they start trying to get round the back (drop the sleeve and reach through my legs with my left hand to ankle pick their left leg), and I switch to a whizzer grip to sumi-gaeshi if they adopt a deep jigotai.
Your left hand and foot position seem to be different, Slindsay.
Out of curiousity, what techniques are you using from that grip? Pretty much all you would have would be hip throws.
To answer your original question though I would take the opposite method of getting your grip. The underhook is harder to get so get it first. Grab his right lapel with your right hand and tug him forward. As he move towards you slide your left hand around his back and secure your grip. Then transfer your right hand to the left lapel and you're there.
You can't hold this position for more than a few seconds in a competition though. You'll need to train to attack as soon as your grip is set to avoid being penalized.
Are you left handed Slindsay? That sounds like a left handed grip to me, it also sounds pretty strong, which is why no one in their right mind is letting you have it.
Hip throws are the main thing from this position but if they realise the danger of the hip throws (Which everyone does because we had a lesson devoted to fighting from this grip) they try to straighten out and pull away.
Originally Posted by Judobum
If you feel when they try to pull up and out of the grip then you candrive forward to get Taani Otoshi or O Uchi Gari. I'm trainning on Thrsday so I'll make apoint of asking Sensei then if the grips a commonm one and what it might be called by people not in our club.
Before someone else says it:
No but I'm weird and tend to be comfortable doing a lot of throws left handed, blame calssical Ju Jitsu.
Originally Posted by Lu Tze
Once I have the grip I tend to find tht these don't work so well, the head in the shoulder combined with th one round the back act like a clamp so they can't easily turn their shoulders into anything and the grip is tight so if they try to go for foot sweeps you can twist them to the ground.
Originally Posted by Red Sauce
Not sure what you mean by feet forward, I have my left foot forward and am standing slightly offset to the other guy, by which I mean:
Originally Posted by Red Sauce
But yeah, I think the grips is vulnerable to forward throws like Sode.
Last edited by ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE; 2/21/2007 12:58pm at .
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