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  1. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2003 10:07am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, let me say that I am so sick of ready that TKD is thousands of years old. Second, I am sick of hearing that it's orgins soley from Korea.
    I really enjoy how all these super pro TKD people always fail to mention that General Choi defected to North Korea!

    Just had to vent.

    Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.
  2. Phoenix is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2003 12:51pm

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     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Choi defected? Where did you hear that from?

    I thought he just did an exhibition of his art in North Korea, and that was enough to piss off the South Korean government and have Choi stripped of his rank.

    That's why he moved to Canada. Because he didn't want to relinquish his rank.

    But I'm interested in your sources. Where did you get this info?
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  3. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2003 10:28pm

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     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Choi was origninally from N. Korea (born there prior to Korean war). He took the ITF over there to demonstrate to the N Koreans. This lead to S. Korean government labling him as a traitor and thus stripping his rank. Now there are other conspirasies about them plotting to assasinate him, imprison him, and other such things. You will have to ask some hard core ITF members about that.

    Anyway, Choi defected to Canada, never to N. Korea, but has made many trips to N. Korea in order to promote his version of TKD. Ironically, they label him the traitor, but the S. Korean army still practice Oh Do Kwan system of TKD which is more related to ITF than WTF, even though they do have WTF leagues in the military.

    Hopefully this section will help weed out the 2000 year old garbage you have heard.

    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
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    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
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    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
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    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  4. Phoenix is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 12:02am

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     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for clearing that up, Miguk...

    I knew I was on the right track....but I'm still interested to know where M4949 got his info from.
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  5. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 7:33am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Obituary I had found, said he died in Pyongyang.
    "Shortly before his death in Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, Choi was able to announce through the ITF website, "I am the man who has the most followers in the world": be that as it may, the impact of taekwondo, with 50m practitioners after 50 years of existence, is undeniable."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,771475,00.html

    If I am wrong, sorry.

    Reason I get so fed up on this is issue I come from a Tang soo do Background. TSD does give credit to Chinese and Japanese arts as roots ( at lease my school did). I get so furstrated when I workout with TKD guys who insist that Koreans invented all of it thousands of years ago.



    Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.
  6. rmclain is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 8:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    m4949,

    Even though there is evidence of some form of martial technique being practiced in the past in Korea, the Taekwondo-type arts undeniably get their foundation after WWII from Japanese/Okinawan and Chinese arts.

    Even Choi Hong Hi studied karate in Japan. He achieved either brown belt or 1st dan before returning to Korea - I've heard both from people that were there at that time.

    The reason for the BS history many people pass along is because of the S. Korean Govt. In the 1960's the politicians (with the money) felt it was unpatriotic for Koreans to practice any art coming through Japan. The five major schools (except the Chang Moo Kwan) in S. Korea were based from karate that Koreans brought back from their experience from living in Japan.

    The govt. sought to unify the five major schools into one system and create a "new" art with new requirements and "Korean" labels. Korean govt. historians fictionalized Taekwondo as being thousands of years old because "people without a history are easier to control." In this case - they were fed the history that could help maintain control and support the push for "Korean" Taekwondo. Anyone resisting the unification was labeled as a "traitor." Most of those people quit, were squeezed into obsurity, or left the country.

    Plus, most of Koreans were poor and would gladly accept the meager salaries that the govt. handed out to teach Taekwondo.

    It is good that your school gave credit to its roots. I think it is important to know your history to understand the foundation of the art you study. I also think it is important to stand on the shoulders of the teachers that came before you, and reach farther than they could.

    R. McLain
  7. Boffo is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 8:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This was the question I really didn't want to answer when I took my black belt test. I was going to lie. Fortunately I didn't get that particular question.
  8. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 9:33am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RMclain,
    Thanks for restating my point.
    We know the real history, why the need to hide it, particularly outside Korea.

    Boffo, what is the answer your school expected?


    Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.
  9. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 10:02am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "We know the real history, why the need to hide it, particularly outside Korea"

    People are most likely spewing out that which they were spoon fed. It is so much easier to just spit out that which you have been fed than it is to get off your ass and look for some new food for thought. I don't believe people are hiding it so much as they just don't know better, at least that is my thought from outside Korea.

    As for the Koreans themselves, my view is this, if from your birth, I told you that left is right and vice versa and I drilled that into your head until one day 40 years down the road someone points out the opposite how would you react? By human nature you would deny the new point of view.

    Plus the BS history of TKD gives the Koreans national pride in something they feel is uniquely theirs. At the time of formation that pride was widely needed due to post Japanese occupation. Plus how do you tell the world that all the information you have giving them about their national past time is a lie. Only recently are they starting to own up to some of its roots.


    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
    http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
    http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


    SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!
  10. m4949 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2003 10:32am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Miguksaram,
    Right On. I always appreciate what you have to say.

    Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.
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