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  1. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 3:45am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Chi Gerk and equivalents

    Greetings,
    I have pretty little information about most CMA's, so help me out please...

    Is there anything like the Wing tsun Chi gerk ("sticking feet" - like Chi sau, only, naturally without the Poon sau-like rolling...) in other Chinese systems?

    In other words: training for the sensitivity of feet/legs, so that they can react from feet to feet contact quickly...

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  2. Mut Sao is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 7:56am


     Style: Kung Fu

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    don't know how any of the Wing Chuns do chi gerk, but we often train various leg sticking things. Beginning with stepping forward or back in leg contact and moving on from there.
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 8:53am

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    Yes. All good foot sweeps stem from this ability. So, any style which has foot sweeps also trains this regardless of whether they specifically emphasize it in some fashion such as a drill.

    If you can't figure out how to foot sweep from the positions/movements you are training your feet to do, then you don't have it; your method does not train these "attributes" regardless of whether you think it does or not.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

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  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 10:27am

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    Many do.

    Tai Chi
    Preying Mantis
    Xingyi
    Baji are some of the top of my head. I also consider any system with 2-man/person sets a form of sensitivity training.
  5. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 11:34am


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
    Is there anything like the Wing tsun Chi gerk ("sticking feet" - like Chi sau, only, naturally without the Poon sau-like rolling...) in other Chinese systems?
    Yep. When I was doing southern shaolin, we did a lot of leg trapping (primarily pressing with the shin) and foot stomping.

    It wasn't trained in a drilling method like chi-gerk, but out of application.
  6. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:26pm


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

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    We do a "destabilising" exercise that start with our shins pressing.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:48pm

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    Uhmmm, are these similar/akin to foot sweeps?
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  8. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:53pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Uhmmm, are these similar/akin to foot sweeps?
    Partially, it's rather training aimed at defense against kicks (and sweeps) by kicks. In WT it is based upon the fact that you don't have weight on your front leg and thus should be able to react to the opponent's (leg)movement faster (don't need to shift weight and move your center of gravity, etc...)

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  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 2:15pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Uhmmm, are these similar/akin to foot sweeps?

    Not exactly. To compare it to Judo, they would be similar to the Kuzushi and (????arrgh!! forgot the word: tsukuri and/or kake ??) necessary to setup to a good foot sweep.

    However, they are not really foot sweeps. These drills are, for the most part, really just footwork tools used to help teach how gain the line for striking.

    You can use them to figure out foot sweeps, though. That's why I mentioned that if a practitioner couldn't figure it out from the spots they are supposed to be hitting with their feet, their method for training this sucks. :smile:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 2:31pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
    Partially, it's rather training aimed at defense against kicks (and sweeps) by kicks. In WT it is based upon the fact that you don't have weight on your front leg and thus should be able to react to the opponent's (leg)movement faster (don't need to shift weight and move your center of gravity, etc...)

    React faster in only one direction, perhaps.

    However, if you observe every other art which actually goes about trying to sweep each other, the weight is roughly even (once they get past the hand/grip fighting) as they shuffle around like a tennis player trying to set it up and seal off any leaks which might be exploited.


    I've mentioned it before and I will do so here again: If you can't find your "truth" in other places - both related and unexpected - something is wrong.

    In this case, it isn't so much what you are doing is wrong. But, IMO, it is one of interpretation: what you are doing does not "fit" completely with trying to protect yourself from someone trying to sweep you. Even if you've succeeded in jamming it in, you've smashed a square peg in a round hole.

    (I am, for the sake of argument, setting aside the discussion of what else a 100%/0% weight distribution methodology might be appropriate for because I don't see it as relevant to this discussion.)
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 2/20/2007 2:33pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
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    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
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