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  1. Doctor Z is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:22pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HackingYodel
    I know it sounds counterintuitive, I'll try to explain. I don't have the exact numbers, because this was around five years ago, so I'll have to use similar measurements.

    I start week one with a body weight of 205 pounds. My body fat % reads 18%, so:

    205 * .18 = 36.9 lbs. (fat) and 168.1 lbs. (lean body mass)

    At the start of week two I weigh myself at ~202. I lost 3 pounds?!? Program must be crap..., but:

    202 * .157 = 31.7 lbs. (fat) and 170.3 lbs. (lean) = a solid gain of over 2 lbs. YES! I burnt fat (2.3% here), gained muscle and improved my body composition overall.

    Again, these were not my exact numbers. I used approximations to show how you can, paradoxically, lose weight and gain muscle mass at the same time. This is why I stress measuring your body fat % when undertaking any fitness program. A person's weight, and its change, only shows half the picture. You have to know what kind of weight you are gaining or losing to truly gage your progress.
    While I can understand your point and view, and agree with it, for me, it's unfortunately neglectable at this point. =\

    Why? Because my goal isn't to really build up that much muscle mass, primarily my goal is just to gain more weight, while I understand that someone who is already that well up in weight may think it's very important to check their muscle mass, for me, my primary goal is still just to gain weight.

    I'm also gaining some muscle along the way, but I view that more as a bonus than part of my main objective, I also do some excercising but that's mostly to get a more balanced body composition, rather than all of the fat just going to the 'bad places'.

    Eh, ****, whenever I write a long message it turns into total crap that I feel like editing, but my point is: checking your fat-level is cool and all, but it's too specialized (and unneccesary) for me at this point.
  2. MacWombat is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:24pm


     Style: Relson GJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by noto
    Hit up El Macho, he's an encyclopedia for this stuff.

    I've been working on gaining as well. I am 5'8" , started out at 115, up to 130 now. Breaking up meals really helped a lot, I get hungry a lot more than I used to and consequently I eat more.

    I just can't drink those weight gainer drinks, but I do take supplements (vitamins, fish oil, glutamine, aminos).

    I stopped weights for a while after I plateaued, I need to start back to see if I can put on another 10 or 15 lbs.

    I'm 5'8 145. I thought I'd be a lot bigger than I was at 130, but not so much. If you do reach 145, you'll probably end up wanting to be 160 like I do now. Good luck though.
  3. HackingYodel is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 2:27pm


     Style: not training currently

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Z
    While I can understand your point and view, and agree with it, for me, it's unfortunately neglectable at this point. =\

    Why? Because my goal isn't to really build up that much muscle mass, primarily my goal is just to gain more weight, while I understand that someone who is already that well up in weight may think it's very important to check their muscle mass, for me, my primary goal is still just to gain weight.

    I'm also gaining some muscle along the way, but I view that more as a bonus than part of my main objective, I also do some excercising but that's mostly to get a more balanced body composition, rather than all of the fat just going to the 'bad places'.

    Eh, ****, whenever I write a long message it turns into total crap that I feel like editing, but my point is: checking your fat-level is cool and all, but it's too specialized (and unneccesary) for me at this point.
    Oh yes, sorry for such a poor post. I hadn't had my tea yet and meant the post more for others and clarification than to advise you.

    You sound like a classic ectomorph. Here is a pretty good article you may like: http://www.vistamagonline.com/articl...=1&s=ectomorph Give it a read and see if any of it rings true for your body type. If the article describes you, the green tips near the bottom should get you off to a great start. I'll try to help with any questions you may have with the list.

    Hope this is more appropiate and helpful.
  4. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 2:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Z

    Why? Because my goal isn't to really build up that much muscle mass, primarily my goal is just to gain more weight, while I understand that someone who is already that well up in weight may think it's very important to check their muscle mass, for me, my primary goal is still just to gain weight.
    Is it really? Or is your goal to be a more powerful striker? If so, do what we told you on page one of this thread.

    Now get to work!
    We are surrounded by warships and dont have time to talk. Please pray for us. One Somali Pirate.
  5. Doctor Z is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 2:51pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Is it really? Or is your goal to be a more powerful striker? If so, do what we told you on page one of this thread.

    Now get to work!
    My goal is to be a more powerful striker, yes, and for that I need muscle, lots of muscle, but I'm trying to not think too far ahead at first.

    Basically my focus atm is to gain weight, while also gaining some muscle, but it isn't to do so much specialized training that I'm aiming for a low fat level, basically as I said on page one "I just want to add more mass to my striking".

    While I make it sound like I'm just only trying to gain fat, that isn't true, I am gaining muscle along the way (since I excercise and do Muay Thai), yet I'm not going to be so caught up in it just yet that I want to aim for a low fat level, I'll do that once I've gained some more weight.

    Edit: One thing that really gave me a wake-up call regarding my underweightness was when a physician had taken a blood sample of me and concluded that my metabolic rate was "absolutely normal"... I later then realized that it was because I didn't eat enough yet had delusions thinking I did.
    Last edited by Doctor Z; 2/20/2007 2:55pm at .
  6. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 3:44pm


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pick up a book that's called The teenager's guide to being successful(it's made by the son of the man who originally made something along the lines of The guide to being successful, or something), or something along those lines. It involves a story therein involving success in your scenario. Otherwise, pick up Scrawny to Brawny by Mike Mejia I think, and look at this:

    http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/hardcore.html

    Be prepared to start eating. A lot.

    Edit: Also, you'll have to change up the lifts a bit and decrease the range of motion based on your body type. Rack Pulls instead of Deadlifts, Box Squats, Front Squats, Pullups, Bench Pressing only to parellel, that kind of thing. Pick up Scrawny to Brawny if not for anything else.
    Last edited by Flash Jackson; 2/20/2007 3:46pm at .
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by noto
    Hit up El Macho, he's an encyclopedia for this stuff.

    I've been working on gaining as well. I am 5'8" , started out at 115, up to 130 now. Breaking up meals really helped a lot, I get hungry a lot more than I used to and consequently I eat more.

    I just can't drink those weight gainer drinks, but I do take supplements (vitamins, fish oil, glutamine, aminos).

    I stopped weights for a while after I plateaued, I need to start back to see if I can put on another 10 or 15 lbs.
    Hahaha, anyone who hear you guys would think I'm like The Hulk or something :evil6: You guys will see how small I am when the SoFla TD clips are in :tongue3:

    Anyways, Doctor Z, the guys have been giving you a good advice. Since I don't know your age and weight, I will assume that you are below 170lbs (the lower range for an average 6 foot tall medium built man). If you are very underweight, your goal first should be to attain a normal weight (for your height, it would be between 170lbs and 180lbs) at a minimum. Once you achieve that, then you can decide whether to go above that.

    Two things before anything else it's said.

    #1. It's hard to put on weight, build mass or get lean while doing MA training if you are over 30. No way around it. Hard but not impossible. I say that cuz I don't know your age. If you are in your 20s, then it's a lot, lot, lot easier. Just keep that in mind. For example, when I'm not doing BJJ, I can go up to 165lbs solid (I'm 5'6" and 37 years old.). But when I'm training I go down to 150-something (I'm currently 156lbs). This is while taking 100g of protein from shakes alone and eating half a pound of beef/chicken a day (not counting pasta, eggs, tofu and peanut butter.) Blame it on a decrease of testosterone production :tongue6:

    #2. Keep fiber supplements handy (and a bottle of mineral oil if possible). Most people will get stomach problems, including constipation, when they increase the amount of protein they take. It is always manageable if you make sure you take enough fiber every day (and a teaspoon of mineral oil if you feel you are about to get constipated.) I know, it sounds funny, but it happens. :toothy3:

    Ok, let's talk about calories a day...

    Assuming a target of 170lbs, you need between 14 and 17 calories per pound of bodyweight for maintenance; 18 to 20 cals/pound of bodyweight for mass gain. If you multiply the target weight, 170lbs by 17 calories (maintenance calorie intake), that will be 2890 calories a day.

    That's the minimum that you need to eat. You need to ingest that much just to avoid losing weight. To gain, you have to go even beyond that, 18 to 20 cals per pound of bodyweight. 180lbs x 20 cals = 3600 calories a day. Here, go easy. (see #2 above).

    I would say start at 3000 cals a day first if you are not there already, and increase to 3600 little by little. See how your stomach reacts.

    Also, it won't make any sense if you get body fat rather than lean mass. That's not the idea of gaining weight either. Increase/decrease/adjust month by month, week by week.

    BTW, this is the same formula I used to help my g/f with her diet with excellent results.

    ...Food...

    First and foremost, you need to take aminoacids. I'd suggest either something like Twinlab Amino Fuel (liquid form) or ProLab BCAA Plus (capsules).

    Next, get some protein shakes for gaining weight. You'll notice these have a certain amount of fat from calories, which you'll need to gain mass (anything between 50 and 80 cals from fat.) My personal preference is EAS Myoplex RTD, which you could take two of those a day. There are other brands labeled as "weight gainers." Avoid anything labeled "Lite" or "low fat", btw.

    Eat meat, lots of it. Half a pound a day if need be. And embrace whole eggs, with the yolk included. That and the shakes alone will give you the protein you need to bulk up. But you also need to eat carbs. Lots of it. Potatoes, whole wheat pasta, oatmeal, yams. Aim to eat 5 times a day at a minimum. Just keep eating throughout the day.

    Once you have your weight gaining diet in place, then you'll be in a far better position to take advantage of weight lifting exercises. Squats, lunges and leg presses. Whorify those three exercises 2-3 times a week. If you are pressed with time, stick with those. Barbell rows and deadlifts need to be included in your training menu. Bench presses are needed, too. However, be mindfull they are bad for your shoulders on the long run. Keep cardio to a minimum, but don't ditch it completely either.

    So in summary, you need the following:

    - eat 2890 calories a day MINIMUM. Aim to ingest 3000 cal/day with incremental increases up to 3600. Adjust/decrease/increase depending on how you feel. Go easy!!!!

    - you need aminoacids. No way around it. They can make the difference between gaining lean muscle and just wasting time and energy.

    - make sure to always take enough fiber every day.

    - get at least 2 protein shakes a day (you should get AT A MINIMUM 90-100 g of protein... MINIMUM). Shoot for 170g of protein a day. Increase if your stomach can take it.

    - aim to eat lots of meat/chicken/fish, half a pound a day MINIMUM.

    - whole eggs, potatoes, whole wheat pasta, yams, oatmeal are your friends. Don't be scared of eating 4 eggs a day... really (so long as you work our hard, mind you.)

    - include peanut butter and flaxseed oil in your diet, too.

    - squats, leg presses and lunges should be part of your training regime. Barbell rows and deadlifts as well. Use bench presses, but be mindful of your shoulders.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 2/20/2007 4:08pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Z
    My goal is to be a more powerful striker, yes, and for that I need muscle, lots of muscle, but I'm trying to not think too far ahead at first.

    Basically my focus atm is to gain weight, while also gaining some muscle, but it isn't to do so much specialized training that I'm aiming for a low fat level, basically as I said on page one "I just want to add more mass to my striking".

    While I make it sound like I'm just only trying to gain fat, that isn't true, I am gaining muscle along the way (since I excercise and do Muay Thai), yet I'm not going to be so caught up in it just yet that I want to aim for a low fat level, I'll do that once I've gained some more weight.

    Edit: One thing that really gave me a wake-up call regarding my underweightness was when a physician had taken a blood sample of me and concluded that my metabolic rate was "absolutely normal"... I later then realized that it was because I didn't eat enough yet had delusions thinking I did.
    El Macho really put it out there well for you.

    The only reason I mentioned watching the fat intake is that, I had bad fat gain from a bulking weight training program I did years ago. I think my fat gains overcame my strength gains. Maybe I'm just biased. Fat slows you down, you have to stay fast, nimble, etc. Plus, I think that high fat diets are bad for the heart and circulatory system.

    I think you want to add more force to your striking. While mass is a component, I think you will find that strength will accompany size as you eat and train.
    We are surrounded by warships and dont have time to talk. Please pray for us. One Somali Pirate.
  9. Doctor Z is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:51pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    El Macho really put it out there well for you.
    Complete understatement! El Macho is officially my new god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I think you want to add more force to your striking. While mass is a component, I think you will find that strength will accompany size as you eat and train.
    Having heard so many people on here tell the same now (that I should also aim for muscle mass), I figure it will be a good idea.
  10. Backdraft is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 5:21pm


     Style: Shootfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good luck. I went from 172 cm, 55 kg, to 65 kg (Metric, yay) last year in three months. I ate lots of tuna, whole grain bread, bananas, etc, etc, and whey powder. It worked for me. I also drank gainers after lifting and regular MA class.
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