Kung Fu, Grappling and Cliches'

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 11:41pm

Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe

Why go to the ground if you don't have to..

Was there a sale at Cliches-R-Us?

Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe

I gaurantee you I can throw someone well enough to stun them, remain standing and kick'em in the gut if I have to.

That's an odd thing to say. Wouldn't that depend on who you were throwing and about a million other factors?

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 11:57pm

Originally Posted by dwhomp

From what little I know of groundfighting, I would rather be the one taken down and have to deal with it then to be the person taking down and be blind to the rest of my surroundings.

Why do you assume you would automatically become "blind" to your surroundings?

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 6:21am

Originally Posted by wakinonioi

Was there a sale at Cliches-R-Us?

That's an odd thing to say. Wouldn't that depend on who you were throwing and about a million other factors?

You could say that about any martial art technique.

Yes if the person over 300 pounds I am not going to try any throw.

That's not the point however

**SifuJason** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 9:16am

A couple of thoughts (again no quote fest).

In regards to striking, I can see how "sloppy" may be bothersome as a term, and if you have another suggestion I would be willing to adopt it. However, I still feel my point that many MMA people have striking skills that are lacking stands. As you said, the new wave of MMA people are like GSP, who are good at everything, including striking.

As for self-defense, I am glad you agree that armbars in multi-man is a bad idea. As for throws, I have used those extensively in both practice and actual self-defense situations, and I agree they can be effective. However, if weapons or more than a few people are involved, throws can tie you up too much, and it still comes back to striking. Nothing ends a fight like a swift kick to the knee cap.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 9:21am

Interesting point Go-JU joe. I have really no experience really in grappling training. I do find it funny that everyone assumes a judo or BJJ player's whole life is to get to the ground. Yet, the ones I do know say that in certain situations it is a last resort.

You don't want to go to the ground in a bar. Yet, that is the automatic assumption.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 9:38am

Goju-jitsu has sport fighting and self defense training in it. We work techniques that you can compete with relative safty using and also practice other techniques that you can only practice through half speed drills.

The idea is that the sport training gives you the aggresivness, timing and intangables to make the damaging stuff you drill actually work.

Here's an example of me being dumb and learning a lesson the hard way.

While doing full sparing with take downs, throws, kicks and punches I thought I would be clever, pull gaurd and quickly go for a Kimura.

Instead I screwed up, the guy posted up from in my guard, and punched me in the head and when I rolled, and got RNC'd

Yes many people will tell you not to do that, however you fight as you train. That's why I think it is important to do sport grapplign or what ever with a full range.

Being a little pissed at my self the next guy I fought I went back to O'Soto and just threw him.

We also practice things like hip throws where the person holds on and tries to pull you down with them, and learn things like sticking your knee in to break there grip and to drop a knee in there gut to get back up.

I think one of the reasons non-grapplers assume we all just auto-matically roll on the ground is that's what you do in competition and what you see in youtube.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 10:03am

Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe

Goju-jitsu has sport fighting and self defense training in it. We work techniques that you can compete with relative safty using and also practice other techniques that you can only practice through half speed drills.

The idea is that the sport training gives you the aggresivness, timing and intangables to make the damaging stuff you drill actually work.

Here's an example of me being dumb and learning a lesson the hard way.

While doing full sparing with take downs, throws, kicks and punches I thought I would be clever, pull gaurd and quickly go for a Kimura.

Instead I screwed up, the guy posted up from in my guard, and punched me in the head and when I rolled, and got RNC'd

Yes many people will tell you not to do that, however you fight as you train. That's why I think it is important to do sport grapplign or what ever with a full range.

Being a little pissed at my self the next guy I fought I went back to O'Soto and just threw him.

We also practice things like hip throws where the person holds on and tries to pull you down with them, and learn things like sticking your knee in to break there grip and to drop a knee in there gut to get back up.

I think one of the reasons non-grapplers assume we all just auto-matically roll on the ground is that's what you do in competition and what you see in youtube.

Funny that youtube has become the new kung fu movies. I tell people the same thing about kung fu. Don't watch the pretty wushu trainers.

**Omar** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 11:06am

Originally Posted by wakinonioi

That's all 'maybe' and 'if they land wrong' stuff. If you want to be sure, you're gonna have to make sure, and what the heck is the great fear of so much as touching the ground that one would need to 'plan' to avoid it like boiling lava anyway?

It's not fear.

It's the pleasure of standing over them like Silva standing over Anderson except also hollering, "Who's yer bitch now! Huh!?!? Get up punk! Yeah baby....."

It's all about face. :icon_thum Face...and keeping your white shirt clean. You wanna keep yelling at him, "Hey punk! You almost got my shirt dirty! pfffft.....who's the baddest!?"

***jnp*** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 11:11am

Originally Posted by It is Fake??

You don't want to go to the ground in a bar. Yet, that is the automatic assumption.

I'm sure many of you already know this, but for those who might not, let me say this in a clear and concise manner.

Skilled groundfighters who aren't deluded HAVE NO DESIRE to end up on the ground in a fight. If they do, they want to be on top in a dominant position. The LAST place they want to be is on their backs. Like Goju-Joe stated, most would prefer to throw their opponent to the ground while they remain standing.

That said, they spend a fair amount of time training for the, "Oh crap, I got knocked down in a fight and now some guy is climbing on top of me" kind of worst case scenario in a one-on-one weaponless fight.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 2/19/2007 11:59am

Originally Posted by SifuJason

A couple of thoughts (again no quote fest).

In regards to striking, I can see how "sloppy" may be bothersome as a term, and if you have another suggestion I would be willing to adopt it. However, I still feel my point that many MMA people have striking skills that are lacking stands. As you said, the new wave of MMA people are like GSP, who are good at everything, including striking.

As for self-defense, I am glad you agree that armbars in multi-man is a bad idea. As for throws, I have used those extensively in both practice and actual self-defense situations, and I agree they can be effective. However, if weapons or more than a few people are involved, throws can tie you up too much, and it still comes back to striking. Nothing ends a fight like a swift kick to the knee cap.

How many times have you taken out multiple opponents? It's a lot easier said then done. Before people started doing demo's, the idea of fighting several guys was out of the question.You night hit a few and escape, but it's freaking rare that you hear of anyone on the news disabling 3 to 4 attackers. If they did, it'd be on the news. As soon as a decent street fighter crouches a little, that knee cap is flexed, and it's not snapping- watch any Muay Thai matches? People aren't made of silly putty- they have muscle and tendons surrounding there bones, and their bodies are jacked on adrenaline. Now, if you kick some guy while he's talking, etc, that might be a different story.