Kung Fu, Grappling and Cliches'

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 8:08pm

I felt this was an interesting discussion taking place in another thread. It was interesting to see Traditonalists take a sport fighter to task for a comment many of us continue to make.

This will be heavily moderated if it gets ridiculous.IIF

Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe

Slam implying you don't go down with the person.

???

Could you elaborate on this?

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 8:22pm

Originally Posted by wakinonioi

???

Could you elaborate on this?

A lot of times people talk about grappling and street defense with the impressoin that a grappler will automatically grab the guy and go to the ground looking for a sub or groaund and ppund. Grappling arts like Judo and wrestling have great throws. So if in a street situation I grab someone and hip toss them hard so they land badly on the pavment they're on the ground and I am still standing.

that's all I meant.

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 8:33pm

Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe

A lot of times people talk about grappling and street defense with the impressoin that a grappler will automatically grab the guy and go to the ground looking for a sub or groaund and ppund. Grappling arts like Judo and wrestling have great throws. So if in a street situation I grab someone and hip toss them hard so they land badly on the pavment they're on the ground and I am still standing.

that's all I meant.

Yeah, but if you hip-toss somebody you may hurt them, but probably not so terribly. If you intend to slam someone into the pavement in order to bring their day to a close, you are talking about a driving throw where you are very likely to be right there with them all the way down, ending in top position, not standing.

**SongPower** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 8:48pm

If we are talking about a one on one situation a good hip toss to the would stun a person enough to give you ample time to get the hell out of there.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 8:58pm

Originally Posted by wakinonioi

Yeah, but if you hip-toss somebody you may hurt them, but probably not so terribly. If you intend to slam someone into the pavement in order to bring their day to a close, you are talking about a driving throw where you are very likely to be right there with them all the way down, ending in top position, not standing.

Most people don't know how to fall. so I would say a hip toss is enough. Or look at a good O soto / leg reap

If I want to be malacious I can drive my hand under their chin as I throw them. And I don;t need to follow them down.

**wakinonioi** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 9:05pm

That's all 'maybe' and 'if they land wrong' stuff. If you want to be sure, you're gonna have to make sure, and what the heck is the great fear of so much as touching the ground that one would need to 'plan' to avoid it like boiling lava anyway?

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 9:10pm

Why go to the ground if you don't have to.

I gaurantee you I can throw someone well enough to stun them, remain standing and kick'em in the gut if I have to.

I can also fight off the ground but choosing to do so when not neseccary in self defense situation is dumb.

**dwhomp** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 9:26pm

I have dabbled in groundfighting enough to know that I dont know:)

I say that because the little I chose to learn was not so I could take someone to the ground and dominate them, it was so that if _I was taken to the ground, i would not be completely clueless and lost, being able to defend against your average person who knew nothing on the ground.

It is the sportsman trained in groundfight that would take someone to the ground in a real life confrontation. Just as his buddy grabs the chair....

But I dont think you can say that all groundfighters can only defend in a 1v1 situation. Even with that, you DO fight like you train, right?

From what little I know of groundfighting, I would rather be the one taken down and have to deal with it then to be the person taking down and be blind to the rest of my surroundings.

**RunningDog** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 9:33pm

Originally Posted by dwhomp

I have dabbled in groundfighting enough to know that I dont know:)
.

So forgive me for asking, but why post?

**dwhomp** · Posted On: 2/18/2007 9:36pm

Forgive MY hidden passive aggressive as well and look at the title of the thread:

Kung Fu Training Time & Difficulty

Or perhaps read the rest of the post instead of cutting snippets out when all I was trying to express is that I am not an expert at groundfighting and dont have much experience.

But by the same token, I dont have to eat a lot of **** to realize I dont want to eat ****.