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  1. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 10:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    8 jin ~ 8 cardinal directions + 5 steps ~ 5 elements = 13 "postures"
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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  2. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 11:49am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    8 jin ~ 8 cardinal directions + 5 steps ~ 5 elements = 13 "postures"
    Too bad we don't have a MAth Whiz on here who could work out a formulae for how many potential techniques one could develop through recombination of these elements. What I have so far are

    X # of positions for the center of gravity

    by

    X# of directions of movement

    by

    x# of methods of delivering the energy to its target.

    Seems as though it would be a little more complex than simple multiplication since not all combinations of position, direction and delivery would be viable, yes? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  3. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 3:42pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Muchas Gracias to Cullion and Is it Fake?? for the corrective slapdown.

    I hadn't meant to detail the entire catalog of d34dly secrets of TCC, or imply that was all there is. But I do think Omar happened into one of the legs of the elephant, and his conceptualizing dovetails pretty neatly with what WCCC said about how he does what he does.

    I think the degree of repetition needed varies highly depending on the individual, and how reactive they are, IOW how badly they tense up and revert to "hard" force in a fight. Some undoubtedly progress faster, but in many cases, literally thousands of reps are needed before the tendency to stiffen up is trained out and the individual can respond in a relaxed manner.

    As far as Is it Fake?? revealing the real d34dly secrets, WCCC is big on training with the
    heavy bag, and my current teacher has told me secretly that, if my technique is the equal of my opponents-- then the bigger, stronger guy wins.

    There, now we will both be killed for revealing the inner sekrits!

    I'd ask where is this paradise, where TCC younglings get introduced to sparring and can fight after a couple years, instead of going thru all the B.S. I did, but if I asked I would probably hear it was in the UK, and only open to students of G.M. Foo Fist, or suchlike, and I would be sad.
  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 10:56am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by metarat
    Muchas Gracias to Cullion and Is it Fake?? for the corrective slapdown.

    I hadn't meant to detail the entire catalog of d34dly secrets of TCC, or imply that was all there is. But I do think Omar happened into one of the legs of the elephant, and his conceptualizing dovetails pretty neatly with what WCCC said about how he does what he does.

    I think the degree of repetition needed varies highly depending on the individual, and how reactive they are, IOW how badly they tense up and revert to "hard" force in a fight. Some undoubtedly progress faster, but in many cases, literally thousands of reps are needed before the tendency to stiffen up is trained out and the individual can respond in a relaxed manner.

    As far as Is it Fake?? revealing the real d34dly secrets, WCCC is big on training with the
    heavy bag, and my current teacher has told me secretly that, if my technique is the equal of my opponents-- then the bigger, stronger guy wins.

    There, now we will both be killed for revealing the inner sekrits!

    I'd ask where is this paradise, where TCC younglings get introduced to sparring and can fight after a couple years, instead of going thru all the B.S. I did, but if I asked I would probably hear it was in the UK, and only open to students of G.M. Foo Fist, or suchlike, and I would be sad.
    I was offered the chance to spar with headgear and 10oz gloves on my third class under what were loosely San Shou rules. There were no restrictions on contact level with kicks and punches, but we didn't elbow the head, and knees were controlled.
    I threw punches as hard as I could to disappointingly little effect.
    Any throw or takedown allowed, and standing holds like guillotines were allowed to try and get a 'tap'. I got 'schooled' by a smaller opponent, and that's why I stayed.

    There's more about it in my training log (look at the early entries).

    I've always thought TCC people who claim 'TCC can only be made to work if you spend years doing high reps of various techniques from the form slowly' were just trying to make an excuse as to why they didn't spar.

    My view is that whilst many slow reps may help perfect the mechanics of something (just like it does for boxers), there's no reason why you can't spar early and hard. You'll just suck at first, but you'll still be developing other stuff which slow compliant reps don't help with, like toughness against painful and unpredictable impacts, and a keener awareness of why you need to protect your head and keep moving, etc..

    Yeah, the type of TCC I train in is mostly in the UK and south-east Asia AFAIK, but I'm sure that any TCC school you can find with a sucessful San Shou/San Da team (very rare, but I'm sure they exist in North America) will be training with a simillar philosophy.
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  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 12:02pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion

    I've always thought TCC people who claim 'TCC can only be made to work if you spend years doing high reps of various techniques from the form slowly' were just trying to make an excuse as to why they didn't spar.

    My view is that whilst many slow reps may help perfect the mechanics of something (just like it does for boxers), there's no reason why you can't spar early and hard. You'll just suck at first, but you'll still be developing other stuff which slow compliant reps don't help with, like toughness against painful and unpredictable impacts, and a keener awareness of why you need to protect your head and keep moving, etc..
    Great points.
  6. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 5:32pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I was offered the chance to spar with headgear and 10oz gloves on my third class under what were loosely San Shou rules.
    Ahaha. Like certain hot chicks I have met in the old days, I knew this thread would only break my heart.

    After a couple years of studying with an authorized representative of the Wm. C. C. Chen franchise, I pushed him with moderate force during a demo and promptly got chopped in the adam's apple, hard. That is pretty much the extent of realistic training I have recieved in formal schools in the U.S. (Arizona). It may indeed be better in New York or San Francisco, but not anywhere I am likely to live in the forseeable future.

    Until I met "oldtyger", who contributes to this site occasionally, I never sparred with anyone using Taiji. Now there is hope; but we also now have two toddlers each (and his wife is expecting) and live on opposite sides of town, so my progress is pretty glacial.

    My one hope is (after a pending job change) to get into a "real" martial art program somewhere nearby and partake of sparring while trying to bring some TCC principles along into my training.
  7. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 6:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I was offered the chance to spar with headgear and 10oz gloves on my third class under what were loosely San Shou rules. There were no restrictions on contact level with kicks and punches, but we didn't elbow the head, and knees were controlled.
    I threw punches as hard as I could to disappointingly little effect.
    Any throw or takedown allowed, and standing holds like guillotines were allowed to try and get a 'tap'. I got 'schooled' by a smaller opponent, and that's why I stayed.

    There's more about it in my training log (look at the early entries).

    I've always thought TCC people who claim 'TCC can only be made to work if you spend years doing high reps of various techniques from the form slowly' were just trying to make an excuse as to why they didn't spar.

    My view is that whilst many slow reps may help perfect the mechanics of something (just like it does for boxers), there's no reason why you can't spar early and hard. You'll just suck at first, but you'll still be developing other stuff which slow compliant reps don't help with, like toughness against painful and unpredictable impacts, and a keener awareness of why you need to protect your head and keep moving, etc..

    Yeah, the type of TCC I train in is mostly in the UK and south-east Asia AFAIK, but I'm sure that any TCC school you can find with a sucessful San Shou/San Da team (very rare, but I'm sure they exist in North America) will be training with a simillar philosophy.
    Cullion, does that back-arm forearm/wrist Tai Chi strike get a guernsey in sparring?
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  8. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 6:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Cullion, does that back-arm forearm/wrist Tai Chi strike get a guernsey in sparring?

    Which one are you talking about ?

    Edit: I'm not sure which technique you mean. If it's something from the form that looks like it might be a weird strike of some sort I may have been taught a completely different, but more workable application for the movement, like a throw
    Last edited by Cullion; 3/03/2007 6:41pm at .
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  9. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 6:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's something like this:



    You're spinning and striking with the forearm, palm inwards, using the movement of the whole body to power the attack.
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  10. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2007 6:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, I don't see strikes like that in sparring. People generally try and keep their elbows away from each other's faces (if striking) in the rules we spar under. I don't recall people generally trying to hit me with their forearm during sparring. It generally all turns into wrestling when we're that close.

    My teacher has hit me on the jaw with his forearm, with a sort of sweeping movement like that during a rougher push hands session.
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