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  1. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 3:22am

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     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog

    What kung fu styles break their forms up and adapt to modern training methods? I've never seen one.
    Got ZERO do with what styles. It's what SCHOOLS or better yet....what PEOPLE.

    Which people? Easy.

    The one's interested in learning how to fight.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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  2. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 4:42am


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would agree with that. One of my XY instructors was not a good fighter (which is quite rare, XY guys tend to be a bit sadistic). He admitted it and never claimed to be. But it was through him that I got the...anality (new word!) in practice so when I got to an instructor who was heavy into fighting, the transition was much easier and I was able to carve off what really wasnt applicable.

    But even with XY there isnt much to carve off...there isnt much to begin with! But I find it more applicable that you find what works for you. I would argue I need two elements to be an effective fighter.

    But every art is full some...well....crap. But even the crap might have an additional purpose outside of fighting. I can think of a few that suck in XY but teach balance or coil. Perhaps work the crap outta something (For you XY folk, read dragonwalking over and over and over...;) )
  3. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 4:51am

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    The crane stance in the Karate Kid is actually from Goju (Goju founder Chogen Miyagi Daniel San's sensei Mr. Miyagi)

    And you can actually see guys sparring using it in this OLD clip at about the 1:30 mark
    Hmmm.

    That's not a cat stance with the leading leg raised for blocking and kicking?

    As you know, cat stance (nekuwashi dachi) is the main fighting stance in Goju, and the personal 'style' for Yamaguchi.
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  4. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 8:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes i do.

    Are you asking if I am saying that the old clip the guys are standing in Cat stance when they spar?


    I am not sure, if so they're doing it in an exagerated form from what i learned. Could just be old time Goju.

    My point though was I never use this stance in sparing but I am going to try and mix it in with the Muat Thai stance and see if I can use it to screw people up and through a quick front kick off my lead leg when they think I am going to do a roundhouse.
  5. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 10:46am


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A couple of thoughts from what people have posted (without going on a quote-fest, because I am lazy like that).

    1) The issue of tradition vs evolution is one that I see as both unavoidable, and potentially overstated. It is true that many arts have rather inane traditions when looked at from the perspective of fighting ability; most often in regards to weapon defense, as well as the whole "chambering thing" which most kung fu luckily avoids. However, I think part of the issue comes from a lack of historical continuity (knowledge) of what a lot of the training drills/forms/etc are really designed to do. For example, something I learned as a Monkey Fist/Slap is in one of our early forms. You basically whip your arms downwards in front of you. Not knowing what it is meant for, it looks frivilous and ballet-like. However, having been hit by one of these delivered by one of my senior fellows, I can personally attest to the practicality of it. Fast, devestating, hard to block or dodge. I think a lot of "traditions" modernists scorn can in reality be very useful. This is not to say some of the scorn isn't deserved though. Modern instructors of TCMA often don't know the meaning/practicality behind what they are doing, and so it becomes all "fluff," so to speak.

    I think modern MA in general, and especially MMA, would benefit from further incorporation of the striking abilities and general fluidity and balance taught by CMA. In all honesty, the striking skills of most professional MMA skills aren't that impressive compared to a lot of long-time CMA practitioners. Why they keep on loosing in my mind comes back to the grappling defense, sprawls, etc, and which I can't figure out why they were lost from CMA, as they used to be there...

    2) Crane stance (not quite the karate kid one, but similar with one leg up, knee foward, and your hands in a guard) is quite effective in a fight for jamming people and blasting them. Takes some time to learn, but very useful.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 10:53am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhomp

    But even with XY there isnt much to carve off...there isnt much to begin with! But I find it more applicable that you find what works for you. I would argue I need two elements to be an effective fighter.
    Funny I was thinking the same thing. I had/have two favorites, one sets up the other and vice versa.

    It seems the more compact the art the better the fighter. This isn't a hard and fast rule of course but, the smaller amount of forms gives way to more martial practice.
  7. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 11:10am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuJason
    A couple of thoughts from what people have posted (without going on a quote-fest, because I am lazy like that).


    I think modern MA in general, and especially MMA, would benefit from further incorporation of the striking abilities and general fluidity and balance taught by CMA. In all honesty, the striking skills of most professional MMA skills aren't that impressive compared to a lot of long-time CMA practitioners. Why they keep on loosing in my mind comes back to the grappling defense, sprawls, etc, and which I can't figure out why they were lost from CMA, as they used to be there...

    I think you've answered your own question, the nesescity to sprawl, check leg kicks an deliver leg kicks and shoot in on people requires a totaly different stance and therfore different stand up strategies and techniques.

    Here's something very interresting

    Look at Chuck's stance



    Legs wide and low

    I just noticed this is actually again a lot like a fencing stance of the fencer on the right



    The big difference being that Chuck is keeping himself at 45 degrees to his opnnent so he's mroe square.

    (forgive my google-fu these are not the best pictures but the ones I could find quickest)


    Anyways interresting thoughts.

    This is why I love Bullshido

    Going to try it out next sparring class or a few and see what happens to me
    Last edited by Goju - Joe; 2/18/2007 11:12am at .
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 11:50am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good Post.

    The above is why I say TMA is good when trained properly.

    Here is a picture of Beng (smashing/crushing) Quan from xingyi.





    Here is a picture from MMA:





    I'm not going to sit here and say "look xingyi." LOL133111111!!!!!!!

    It isn't. My point is that we train similar techniques, in good schools.

    What happened is form fairies ( I was one) do this:



    Which is fine for health, strength, and flexibility. The problem is, many say hey this is SD.
    Yet, you never spar and meditate in these stances for days on end. That is what most people think is kung fu.
  9. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 12:06pm

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     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's funny that TMA people who look down at MMA and want to rediscover meaning in forms don't spend time looking at actual fights to see the real application in the movements
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 12:10pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it is the new style vs style debate. It used to be which is better WC vs Mantis or Karate Vs Kung Fu?

    Now it has become MMA vs. TMA, Forms vs Sport Training.
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