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  1. antman is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 10:22pm


     Style: Silat, New to Hsing- Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanx for the education.
    I've seen Asia's clip before.

    The tai chi players in my area there are few that play is all that I was saying.
    "Its not important to be strong, its just important not to be weak."
  2. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 6:50pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suggest fighting back with positive energy.

    (jeezus pleezus, who is this freak?!)

    I explain:


    1) Idiots feed your teacher? Get your teacher more idiots! See if he will do (or let you do) a demo at "whirled tai ji" day, and/or any tournaments around, or at a local college OR if there is a Chinese cultural center nearby, try that! (Chinese students, IME, are like scooby snacks for Chinese teachers; they really enjoy getting them, even if they suck as MA students)

    --Don't worry about new idiot students, in fact you and senior student DON'T be standoffish, but embrace them. Help coach them along. New idiots may in fact dilute older idiots and respect you and senior as part of teacher's establishment. But you're doing this for that reason, just to help your teacher.

    2) Are there any reputable CMA studios (without a Baiji instructor) around, or a reasonable commute (for your teacher)? You and senior do the leg work, and help him to get hooked up with one if that is possible.

    --Can you find a school in your area that might have him up for a seminar or a special class? Again, work to try and vet the place to make sure they're going to be reputable, but its helping your guy.

    3) List your teacher on Empty Flower, or even here (gasp!) and hook him up with Baiji afficionados for seminars somewhere (that won't take advantage of him)? More $ = less need for idiots.

    4) Do any of the idiots suck a little less than the others? If you and senior can agree that one or two have potential, start working with them.

    5) Important: with your Teacher's blessing, its probably time you start looking around in your area for anyone interested in Baiji, and start "coaching" them on the very basics. This to be done with the understanding that, while they pay you a little, or nothing, they are expected to go 'drink from the well' and study with your teacher when they can. You can even roll in with your posse to lessons, that will make the idiots happy.

    This will also give you training partners in your area. And yes it is a royal pain and you may even create other little idiots, but its the chance we take.

    6) More delicate, can senior student start to coach some beginners, with the understanding they will go to teacher and pay for instruction, after getting a few basics-?

    7) Does your teacher have translation software for email, or someone trusted NOT a student to translate for him? If so, write to him about issues and how you feel. Be polite up front, then say something like "I am sorry to trouble you, but I am concerned and feel the need to speak plainly about-- ". If your teacher is from PRC, my experience is they are pretty pragmatic, and respect blunt speaking moreso maybe then teachers from Taiwan or Hong Kong. But make sure he can get a clear translation, so there is no misunderstanding.

    This may sound wiggy, but a lot of it is stuff I've done with a teacher who was getting a bunch of idiots hanging on, or taking a few lessons from him and then starting to teach. Hope it helps.
  3. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 8:44pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by metarat
    I suggest fighting back with positive energy.

    (jeezus pleezus, who is this freak?!)

    I explain:


    1) Idiots feed your teacher? Get your teacher more idiots! See if he will do (or let you do) a demo at "whirled tai ji" day, and/or any tournaments around, or at a local college OR if there is a Chinese cultural center nearby, try that! (Chinese students, IME, are like scooby snacks for Chinese teachers; they really enjoy getting them, even if they suck as MA students)

    --Don't worry about new idiot students, in fact you and senior student DON'T be standoffish, but embrace them. Help coach them along. New idiots may in fact dilute older idiots and respect you and senior as part of teacher's establishment. But you're doing this for that reason, just to help your teacher.

    2) Are there any reputable CMA studios (without a Baiji instructor) around, or a reasonable commute (for your teacher)? You and senior do the leg work, and help him to get hooked up with one if that is possible.

    --Can you find a school in your area that might have him up for a seminar or a special class? Again, work to try and vet the place to make sure they're going to be reputable, but its helping your guy.

    3) List your teacher on Empty Flower, or even here (gasp!) and hook him up with Baiji afficionados for seminars somewhere (that won't take advantage of him)? More $ = less need for idiots.

    4) Do any of the idiots suck a little less than the others? If you and senior can agree that one or two have potential, start working with them.

    5) Important: with your Teacher's blessing, its probably time you start looking around in your area for anyone interested in Baiji, and start "coaching" them on the very basics. This to be done with the understanding that, while they pay you a little, or nothing, they are expected to go 'drink from the well' and study with your teacher when they can. You can even roll in with your posse to lessons, that will make the idiots happy.

    This will also give you training partners in your area. And yes it is a royal pain and you may even create other little idiots, but its the chance we take.

    6) More delicate, can senior student start to coach some beginners, with the understanding they will go to teacher and pay for instruction, after getting a few basics-?

    7) Does your teacher have translation software for email, or someone trusted NOT a student to translate for him? If so, write to him about issues and how you feel. Be polite up front, then say something like "I am sorry to trouble you, but I am concerned and feel the need to speak plainly about-- ". If your teacher is from PRC, my experience is they are pretty pragmatic, and respect blunt speaking moreso maybe then teachers from Taiwan or Hong Kong. But make sure he can get a clear translation, so there is no misunderstanding.

    This may sound wiggy, but a lot of it is stuff I've done with a teacher who was getting a bunch of idiots hanging on, or taking a few lessons from him and then starting to teach. Hope it helps.
    Thanks for the suggestions Metarat, I'll do the best I can to address each of them one at a time.

    1. We have done demos whenever possible to help him out. I have participated in two in the past year and their were several others that went on that I was not able to attend. He does have one or two Chinese students I think, but from what I've seen they are even worse than the idiots we have around. They are more concerned with having titles for themselves than they are training. One of them even established his own MA org. so that he could be president of it. He is currently the only member, I rarely ever see him actually train.

    The main problem we have been running into is many people do not want to pay for lessons. We are near the University, and at one time Master An taught the University Wushu club, he was making very little money by teaching at the club hence the reason he looked into having his own training group somewhere outside the University. When he tried to open his own place near the University none of his students from the Wushu Club joined his new school to support him. Citing that it was too expensive. His rates are comparable with other schools in the city.

    2. There are a few other Kung Fu schools in the area, none of which teach Baji. The problems I have seen is that IMO they are either not reputable, very insular (not wanting anyone outside of their org coming in to teach anything), or too far for commuting.

    3. I will definitely look into listing him on EmptyFlower, and I am planning on writing a school review here but I want to get his permission first.

    4. As near as I can tell the other idiots that are studying Baji, (I don't concern myself with the performance Wushu idiots, they generally work hard at what they're doing and do it quite well) are currently performing at the same level. I am waiting to see if any of them start to show marked improvement over the others and then I'll go from there.

    5. I have already started a training group in my area with my teachers permission. The problem I have been having is that the other members are either too busy to train regularly and too few to really keep things going steady. Basically I show up to train/teach and either 1 or 2 people show, but in most cases no one shows. I have told them that I would like to see them coming regularly and have asked them to bring anyone that is interested in learning. I am not charging them anything in hopes that I can generate enough people to bring my teacher in for a seminar so he can earn some extra $.

    6. The senior student does not have the time available to coach anyone right now. So this approach will have to wait.

    7. I actually speak pretty good Mandarin and act as translator when I attend class. He knows of our concerns and we have spoken with him in very blunt terms about where we feel these less experienced students may be heading. He acknowledges this possibility but does not seem too concerned about it. His standard response is. I think his opinion seems to be not worry about any impending situation, in the end everything will work itself out. Which is what happened to the false instructor who is linked in my OP.

    I appreciate all the time you put into answering my OP, I'll definitely look at putting some of your ideas into practice.
  4. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 9:35pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh Hell Dude!

    I didn't know I was speaking to a pro! I'm sorry; some of that verged on insulting your intellegence. You have obviously been putting LOTS of time and effort into this, over a considerable period already.

    You ought to take a moment and pat yourself on the back, for supporting your Teacher. It does seem a pretty thankess task sometimes.

    Your various investments of time and effort may still bear fruit. Its been 3+ years since we started bringing our Teacher out from L.A., and about a year and a half since I really started to change the paradigm of people taking him for granted, or quickly "studying" and then remarketing his teaching themselves. He's gotten another seminar site (El Paso) with more students but fewer appearances, 2-3 new weekly students in L.A., and a couple more guys here who maybe don't suck. I had him set up to do a (paid) mini-seminar at a Tournament in Alburquerque if he wanted-- and he backed out, apparently because his L.A. students turned up their genteel noses at the concept of "tournaments".

    Progress is measured in inches and degrees sometimes.

    Here's one more idea: Tai Chi Magazine http://www.tai-chi.com/ covers other internal arts sometimes; check out their writer's guidelines online and/or email the editor and see if he's game for an article on Baiji. Its a standing joke in certain circles that they'll put anyone on the cover-- as long as they are Chinese and in costume (don't tell them I said that!). A somewhat educated article with some pics has a good chance of being published.

    If not, well, you could dumb it down, rewrite with a focus on th3 d34dly skills of Baiji, and try here--
    http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/

    Good Luck!

    Jim
  5. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 8:58am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the tips!
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 1:15pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay Ronin take a seat.

    I waited because as you posted you fleshed out your comments more. Not to be a dick but, it sounds a little like sour grapes. Right now It sounds like you are feeding off the hot blooded (your words) senior student.

    I'm going to point at a couple things that caught my eye.

    I am only in town training with them twice a month .
    We had a good fighter at my school, he started dating, got married, and slowly disappeared. He came back, hated the shift of focus in the schoo,l and bitched and moaned. He was asked to chill or leave, we lost a good assistant instructor. Remember you 2 do not pay the bills.

    Basically, you can't attend regularly. During your absence things have changed. Yes, it sucks but, you guys share some of the responsibility. Life happens and people move on, move away, etc, etc. You can't fault an instructor for catering to students that show regularly, over a part-time student.

    This doesn't mean you aren't as serious as the others but, as was said before they feed your instructor.

    Our shifu does not plan to permanently return to China for another 3 years, this is his tentative plan and of course it could suddenly change.
    Did you guys inform the newer student of this development? This may have inadvertently lead to the rush of learning. If it takes 5 years to learn the entire Baji system, of your instructor, then he states hemay be leaving soon........see where I'm going?
  7. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 3:42pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Okay Ronin take a seat.

    I waited because as you posted you fleshed out your comments more. Not to be a dick but, it sounds a little like sour grapes. Right now It sounds like you are feeding off the hot blooded (your words) senior student.

    I'm going to point at a couple things that caught my eye.



    We had a good fighter at my school, he started dating, got married, and slowly disappeared. He came back, hated the shift of focus in the schoo,l and bitched and moaned. He was asked to chill or leave, we lost a good assistant instructor. Remember you 2 do not pay the bills.

    Basically, you can't attend regularly. During your absence things have changed. Yes, it sucks but, you guys share some of the responsibility. Life happens and people move on, move away, etc, etc. You can't fault an instructor for catering to students that show regularly, over a part-time student.

    This doesn't mean you aren't as serious as the others but, as was said before they feed your instructor.

    Did you guys inform the newer student of this development? This may have inadvertently lead to the rush of learning. If it takes 5 years to learn the entire Baji system, of your instructor, then he states hemay be leaving soon........see where I'm going?
    Points understood. To my knowledge the other students are not aware of when the Master may return to China. Since he only speaks Mandarin, not a whole lot of in depth conversation goes on when I'm not there. His plans for returning to China seem to change on a monthly basis, right now he says he is planning on staying in the U.S. for another 3 years after he comes back from his visit to China in August. I wouldn't be surprised if next month he says he is staying 5 years, or only 1 year. His plan seems to change depending on his mood that day. (Either that or he just likes to keep us guessing)

    I do recognize the fact that there have been some changes since I moved away that I am sure did contribute to the current situation. You are correct that he needs to cater to the regular students.

    I am currently trying to find a way to move back to that city so I can train with him regularly, it would mean giving up my MT training, but I think the opportunity to train with someone of his caliber is worth it. Hopefully by doing so the other Senior student and I can contribute more to the overall program and get the other students to realize that it is the quality of their technique that is important not how many routines they can muddle their way through.

    As I have mentioned several times my main concern is some of these students claiming the title of Shifu once Master An has returned permanently to China when they are not qualified to teach. I am essentially trying to prepare for this possible scenario. I am hoping that when I return as a full time student that our increased activity in class, through sparring and contact drills, will encourage the other students to step up and focus on improving the techniques they have already learned. If it doesn't than I imagine that they will stay on the path that they are on now, which is essentially larping, which may lead to new "masters" in the future.

    Thanks for your point of view, it did help me to see the situation a little differently.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 4:55pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74

    As I have mentioned several times my main concern is some of these students claiming the title of Shifu once Master An has returned permanently to China when they are not qualified to teach. I am essentially trying to prepare for this possible scenario. I am hoping that when I return as a full time student that our increased activity in class, through sparring and contact drills, will encourage the other students to step up and focus on improving the techniques they have already learned. If it doesn't than I imagine that they will stay on the path that they are on now, which is essentially larping, which may lead to new "masters" in the future.

    Thanks for your point of view, it did help me to see the situation a little differently.
    Cool. I'm not trying to give you ****. I just want to make sure you guys (You and Senior) don't get asked to leave. If you are contemplating moving back that means his teaching is important to you


    You sound very reasonable and are looking at it the right way. It is much easier to lead by example than to lead by words.

    Also, don't worry about what MAY happen. "What If" is a Marvel Comic Book leave it in fiction land. If they take up the mantle of "Master" then deal with the problem. IRL you can police the quality of your art not other people.

    I'd sit down and have a talk with your Sifu and ask if he has decided on a successor, before he leaves. Don't do it now while things feel tense. Talk with the senior, have dinner with your sifu, and discuss the passing of the title. Nothing else at all. Don't bring up how the students act, how the class is run, or any other problems. If your senior is hot tempered then you do it by yourself.
  9. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 9:25am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the suggestions.
  10. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 10:04pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oke, Is it Fake?? is a pro, but here I'll kibbutz in again.

    Dude, are you like single, not buying a house, and not handcuffed to a job in your new town? If so I would definitely consider moving back, if you'd be happy and can live in good style. Isn't this guy essentially a lineage-holder in Baiji?

    If I was still a batchelor I'd move to L.A. (which I don't like) in a heartbeat to study with my teacher; but with wife and three kids and house- NFW. Can't give'em as good a life in Cally, so I'm stuck.

    But even if you "only" have three years, you could get far. Far enough to put the beat-down on "new shifus", or just be so obviously (you & maybe Senior) superior that it doesn't matter if a LARP'er or two hangs out a shingle.

    And, maybe, kinda sounds LIKE, if you do build up a good school, then 3 years is a very flexible thing that may not come to pass. Be confident, let events come to/be caused by you instead of worrying about what someone else is doing. You've already started a lot of events in motion, you may be more in the driver's seat than you think.

    Jeezus I sound like a fortune cookie! Time for a beer. Bye.
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