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  1. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 6:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS

    If these things can be done, why not incorporate training in deception, suggestion, brainwashing and "headology" into your martial arts regime.
    Because mentalists (LOL...), confidence men, chi-pushers, mediums all select and groom their subjects. In each case, the subject is expecting something to happen, and has been programmed to respond.
    People visiting mediums are usually expecting a message from passed loved ones, so give hints to the skilled cold-reading medium. Chi/no touch subjects are trained in the arts and are expecting to go down. How much different is that from a very compliant uke?

    As MAists, we can use visualisation and meditation to aid us, but I think most of us stop short of self-delusion (sorry, ninjers).
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  2. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 5:22pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't forget that suggestion and hypnotism are practiced on willing subjects - I don't think that would be real useful in an MA environment.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  3. tiktok is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 3:06pm


     Style: Bok Fu Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Don't forget that suggestion and hypnotism are practiced on willing subjects - I don't think that would be real useful in an MA environment.
    Very good point. Last time I sparred I don't recall my partner going along with what I wanted him to do...
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 6:35pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't forget that suggestion and hypnotism are practiced on willing subjects
    Willing or susceptible?... is not exactly the same.

    This article published in Scientific American seems to disagree in the "willing" factor:

    ....evidence indicates that hypnotic responsiveness may have a hereditary component: identical twins are more likely than same-sex fraternal twins to have similar Stanford scores.

    A person's responsiveness to hypnosis also remains fairly consistent regardless of the characteristics of the hypnotist: the practitioner's gender, age and experience have little or no effect on a subject's ability to be hypnotized. Similarly, the success of hypnosis does not depend on whether a subject is highly motivated or especially willing. A very responsive subject will become hypnotized under a variety of experimental conditions and therapeutic settings, whereas a less susceptible person will not, despite his or her sincere efforts. (Negative attitudes and expectations can, however, interfere with hypnosis.)

    Several studies have also shown that hypnotizability is unrelated to personality characteristics such as gullibility, hysteria, psychopathology, trust, aggressiveness, submissiveness, imagination or social compliance. The trait has, however, been linked tantalizingly with an individual's ability to become absorbed in activities such as reading, listening to music or daydreaming.
    About its use in martial arts, well... i think everybody agrees punching to the face is a higher percentage technique than hypnosis.
  5. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 6:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good find, DCS - I meant willing and I'll stand by that for now (while acknowledging that I have 0 hypnotism experience outside of google).

    I would point out the last sentence in the second paragraph and suggest that an 'attacker' is going to have a 'negative' attitude. Plus, I don't know if they did any of those studies with subjects who had any noticeable adrenaline levels, which I believe happens in most, if not all, physical altercations. I don't know if it would change anything, but I'd be interested in the details.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  6. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 7:00pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, i suppose telling an enraged biker in a strip club: "look at my eyes, you feel sleepy, you feel sleepy..." is not the best tactic.
  7. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 7:04pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd love to watch someone try, though...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  8. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 7:19pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tiktok
    Very good point. Last time I sparred I don't recall my partner going along with what I wanted him to do...
    Bruce Lee says: "Your attack by drawing skills need more work"
    :new_silly
  9. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 7:47pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Did he ever make comments about defense with photoshop?
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  10. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 7:55pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Photoshop wasn't developed at that time, but as the guy said: " Disregard what is useful; absorb what is useless" (or something like that...).

    "attack by photoshopping"..... sounds d34dly.

    Now, what if we try to not derail this thread.

    Chris, any takers?
    Last edited by DCS; 2/22/2007 7:59pm at .
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