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  1. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2007 11:30pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    7.62x25 Tokarev performance versus armor

    I've just got a quick question for you firearms gurus.

    I've read all over the internet that 7.62x25 tokarev ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_x_25_mm_TT ) performs well against armor. I've got two specific questions about that.

    1.) What NIJ rating is the minimum needed to stop 7.62x25 tokarev?

    2.) How does 7.62x25 tokarve compare to .44 magnum in terms of performance versus armor and also physiological trauma?

    Thanks! :)
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  2. HackingYodel is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2007 3:40am


     Style: not training currently

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm no guru by any stretch, but I'll try to help.

    1.) Here is a NIJ short list:



    and a more helpful restating from the NIJ in text or PDF: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/189633.htm

    7.62x25mm ammo I have seen pushes an 85 gr. bullet @ 1600 FPS. As the NIJ standard does not address this round specifically, armor makers could vary on their ability to stop such a fast/small round. All that would have me consider the type IIIA the minimal and type III or more if the 7.62x25 ammo had a steel core.

    2.) The 7.62x25 may nudge the .44 in its armor defeating ability, not sure because the .44 comes in such a multitude of loads. Other than that, the .44 magnum is utterly more destructive to living things.

    A handgun's wounding capacity is based on how large a permanent cavity (bullet size and penetration depth) it creates. The .44 starts our larger, vs the ~ .30 caliber 7.62, and has ample mass to expand (nealy an inch with some hollow points) and energy to exit the other side of a person. The tokarev is much too small and well under the velocity needed for its temporary/stretch cavity to cause major damage in tissue.

    Factor in that the tokarev has never been known for its "killing" abilities but the .44 is being used to hunt large game the world over and also for defense against bears, see worlds apart.

    I hope some of our LEO's here will know about some 7.62x25mm armor tests, all I could find were thoughts and speculations... Sorry.
  3. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2007 3:59am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the info and the insights. It makes a lot of sense. I appreciate your consideration and help. :)
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  4. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2007 9:07am

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Does anyone even use that round anymore?

    Seriously, armor should be designed to stop the 7.62x39, not a pistol round.
  5. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2007 9:07pm

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     Style: Guns

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You mean, does any military use it? Somebody somewhere must be using some old submachine guns chambered for it.

    In the U.S., a lot of crufflers are snapping up Tokarevs and CZ-52 pistols. The CZ-52 is especially neato.
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  6. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2007 9:23pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If by Neato you mean, disturbingly attractive, yet hideous, but kinda sexy.

    I'd get one only to keep concealed under my cossack hat. Of course, I'd need a cossack hat first.
  7. saturnjunkie is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 1:01pm


     Style: FMA & judo-ultra noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    Does anyone even use that round anymore?

    Seriously, armor should be designed to stop the 7.62x39, not a pistol round.
    *queue sinister laugh here*
  8. saturnjunkie is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 1:02pm


     Style: FMA & judo-ultra noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    You mean, does any military use it? Somebody somewhere must be using some old submachine guns chambered for it.

    In the U.S., a lot of crufflers are snapping up Tokarevs and CZ-52 pistols. The CZ-52 is especially neato.
    Personally I have to say if I was gonna pick a CZ pistol up it'd be this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_Skorpion

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