Please don't let this derail the thread, but I've been meaning to ask:
Where should the Ke?po section go? Here? JMA? Its own section?
There are lots of different types of Ke?po. Some claimed by their practitioners as Japanese/Okinawan in origin, some claimed as descended from chinese styles, and some avowedly american or hawaian in origin. I also know of styles of Ke?po founded in the UK from eclectic mixtures. Given all this, and that Ke?po is a japanese word, I don't think it's CMA.
Let the Ke?po practitioners decide.
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Wasn't Ke?po originally the Japanese pronounciation of Kung Fu?
On the subject of hidden meaning; I think it's a pretty stupid idea. One grandmaster dies before having the time to teach that and they disappear? I think those that created the forms of the systems we're talking about would have preferred to have the ideas, concepts and meanings in the forms to be as obvious as possible; even exaggerated.
A story I heard from my sifu is about how previous generations of teachers/masters invented many forms as they went just to keep students training longer. The concepts behind those forms still expressed the art correctly, but the movements were not riddled full of ancient secrets about throwing chi fireballs and whatnot. A bit as if a good boxer shadowbox'ed, wrote down what he did and called it a form. The movements are still right and one probably could get better by practicing it (along with more lively methods, of course), but there's no hidden meaning beyond the techniques used and the obvious concepts.
This is what I've gotten from a few instructors.
Originally Posted by Guizzy
Omar, your Shifu looks like he's a blast. Nothing quite like a funny guy who can hurt you.
Kenpo is a Japanse version of Shaolin. Kempo is a Hawaiian version of Kenpo. I suppose that, if anything, it's Japanese.
Originally Posted by Phrost
Though what you have shown me is interesting, you didn't completely understand my meaning. For example, if I throw a reverse punch in Gongbu it is related to, but not the same as a punch thrown in Sandajia. The difference between the two is that one is used for Jibengong and the other for hitting someone, because it is too difficult to move around in a low stance. Just like the back leg is always straight in the Taolu but when you really kick or punch it is a little bent and your normal sparring stance is a little "bouncy" so that you can move around more freely. Throwing a kick with your supporting leg straight is a good way to get your arse Shuai-ed. =P After getting into Sanda I am VERY skeptical of any fighting system with low stances. A lot of the things that I had previously learned (Like most standing Qinna techniques) were rendered completely useless when the sparring began (We go full contact with no equipment of any kind). In what kind of stance do you spar in?
Originally Posted by Omar
- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker
Last edited by MaartenSFS; 2/12/2007 7:24pm at .
You're right. I didn't completely understand your question. Based on what I have seen on this thread, neither did anyone else. I think "hidden meaning" is a poor choice of words. That's why we all went off on a riff about "secret" applications and such.
What you are describing is what I just call "common sense" also known as "training in a vacume". I got 2 related ideas on this.
1. Forms generally represent "platonic forms" of technical applications. We all know that platonic forms don't exists anywhere in this world. They are only there as ideas and yet we strive to get as close to them as we can. I am talking about just down to earth stuff like architecture and building cars and stuff. There are no truly perfect circles. Equilateral triangles don't exist in nature and neither to straight lines when you get down to it but we ignore that stuff when we draw up designs and then when we have to actually build something or drive somewhere we adjust to the conditions that actually exist.
The same exact throw that is showed in that clip is not REALLY going to be EXACTLY the same in the form or even when done on a different person.
2. A lot of other stuff is not hidden. lol. It's just not meant to be anything more than a calisthenic or in some cases movements are even specially designed to take into account the differences in solo training and how your movements are going to get shortened or otherwise changed when the rubber hits the road. You purposely stretch things out and open them up more when working solo in order to just help loosen up better and to better ingrain the movement patterns.
The difference between the two is that one is used for Jibengong and the other for hitting someone.... because it is too difficult to move around in a low stance. Just like the back
"jibengong" = calisthenics/exercises
leg is always straight in the Taolu but when you really kick or punch it is a little bent...
Straight leg kicking is just for stretching. It's an exercise. That shouldn't be a secret.
...and your normal sparring stance is a little "bouncy" so that you can move around more freely. ...
Depends who you ask. Some fighters are highly critical of any bounce at all. A lot of Traditional CMA is based in stillness not movement. This could be a holdover from weapons fighting or dueling but it's really a whole different subject.
Ke?po is just what the Chinese taught the Japanese WRONG so they could sit back and laugh at them while having a cup of tea.
That's the word on the street.
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No, it's the Japanes pronunciation of the Chinese characters for chuan fa. And most ke?po that I've seen is neither Japanese or Chinese in it's entirety. There are branches of Japanese arts called ke?po; Nippon Kempo and Shorinji Kempo for example. And all Chinese boxing can fall under the umbrella of chuan fa. But the Ke?po that we're most familiar with in the USA is a hybrid art that's not truly from either country, as far as I can tell. The ke?poists can elaborate more on the history, I'm sure.
Originally Posted by Guizzy
Last edited by Bugeisha; 2/13/2007 3:44am at .
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