Thread: TKD/Martial Arts Values?
2/15/2007 11:18pm, #21
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
In a way I have come to agree with a lot of the sentiments I have been reading here. Where I train and where I teach such codes as the O-Gae ("Five Tenets") are taught. But I have to say in all candor that almost every person I have run across who teaches KMA does a much better job "talking the talk" than "walking the walk". For instance, in the modern context the 5th Tenet has become "Benevolence to all". Ever tell some of these school owners that you need out of your contract? Or how about #3-- "Loyalty to one's friends." Maybe I have a different idea of "friendship" but I can't say I would trust a lot of KMA people behind me with a knife--- especially if money is involved.
IME the talk about values in MA is a lot like "sportsmanship" in professional sports. As much as its a nice ideal, and I promote it as much as I am able, I don't have a lot of confidence that much of it makes it to expression in daily life. FWIW.
2/16/2007 5:02am, #22Originally Posted by biomed190
That sounds like an excellent place. It's not the norm for TMA's especially TKD.
The money grubbers are getting prolific, good schools are the exception.
Bruce, well said. I like the analogy
2/16/2007 6:17am, #23Originally Posted by glad2bhere
Exactly my sentiments. This karasek fag is living proof.
There are KMA schools who are the exception. I will say that, but as the norm, they are all hypocrites, who just want your money.
I undertsand that they are running a business, but they use the tenets as something they live by exclusively, until you are late on your payment. See how far the courtesy extends then.
2/21/2007 5:15pm, #24
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
Yeah we have the same tenets and a little hands up and recite the 5 oaths every class, OTOH I did the same as a (foreign) schoolkid in Texas (pledging allegiance to the flag).
I don't see much harm in the tenets though, in fact I would consider it better than nationalistic flag worshipping.
It's become an ingrained part of TMA, even if it may not be historically accurate to do so prior to training.
Should we abolish the marriage oath because a significant number of people end up cheating or at least bailing out before the "death do us part"?
Just because some end up being hypocrites, that should not prevent us being reminded of wrong and right. Hence, why not remind ourselves on a 2-3-times-a-week basis?
2/21/2007 7:00pm, #25Originally Posted by Azathoth
2/21/2007 7:15pm, #26
Personally, I think Martial Arts values are very important. Training at a great school with an awesome group for $35/month - now THAT'S a martial art value!
Martial artists use the tenets to avoid being called on their bullshit. If you tell someone that you don't think their MA is up to snuff, they can either prove it by putting it on the line (potentially losing), or they can save face by bowing their head and sadly wondering when you'll reach the point of enlightment where you realize these challenges are useless. Of course, they're as quick to sling **** as the next guy - they just don't like it sticking on them."Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
- Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
2/21/2007 7:32pm, #27
2/21/2007 7:36pm, #28Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
"I was a mean bastard who liked to kick puppies and make chunner jokes until sabumnim and TKD taught me to love my fellow man." Its aikidoishly Larptastic.
2/21/2007 7:46pm, #29
The tenets as I understand them are not part of the technique set, they are part of the culture that accompany them to round out the art. You can have one without the other, and many people, yourself included, obviously do. I happen to think they have a place in the art (strictly my opinion) and in life in general. They show up in similar forms in many different places in life. Wheather anyone adopts them or not is a matter of personal choice.
[Steps off soapbox]
2/21/2007 11:39pm, #30
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
Not sure this is going to come out right, but tell me if this makes sense.
In a way I look at someone investing themselves in MA values when they train in a MA the way I expect someone like Sugar Ray Leonard or Hearns to have showed some class when they did their Boxing thing. When someone trains without values I see something more akin to Mike Tyson--- lotsa mean but no real class. Does anyone else think along these lines? Thoughts?