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  1. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 10:08am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess I just don't view people as "problems".

    For instance I know that the US consumes 50% of the energy resources of the World production for fossil fuels. I know that in the US 3% of the population control 97% of the wealth. I also know that UNICEF posits that some 5000 children in our world die each day from lack of potable water. 5000 today. 5000 yesterday. 5000 tomorrow. I don't think that means that I am going to go down to the local Trailer park and start shooting the residents, or planting pipe bombs on mass transit carriers. What I think it means is that we Humans HAVE problems and we are all stuck together in this same zoo having to face those problems down.

    As far as the Chinese go, I have developed considerable respect for how far they have come. We tend to forget that almost exactly 100 years ago they were one of the last imperial dynasties on the planet, that warlords and crime were out of all control, education was the domain of the empowered few and that the typical life-expectancy in eastern China where 80% of the population is was well under 40. Socially there was a repressive, intolerant regime of ruling Have-s controlling masses of Have-nots. I see nothing like this in the China of the last 20 years. Perhaps its time to do some additional research, but using updated resources, yes? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  2. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 2:41pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso

    (clip)

    Not what I was getting at. I was speaking of the PRC population specifically. Of all the nations you mentioned they're the only one I've seen that has a national self-esteem problem.
    I guess I just don't see it. If its a matter of true self-esteem I would have to say that the U.S. has more issues than any other country, person-per-person. I can't think of any other culture, or any other country, that puts so much into convincing the rest of the planet as to how great we are. It seems to me that no matter which field one turns to, the US uses that area to indulge itself while tooting its horn. To me that sounds like serious self-esteem issues. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  3. saipher is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 3:26pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    We're straying way off course here. I'll just say that no other nation in the history of mankind ever built itself up to the position of the supreme military might in the world and not used that power for territorial acquisitions. And no other such nation used that military might to free so many from tyranny, as opposed to placing conquered people under tyranny.

    Perhaps it is not our self-esteem, but the self-esteem of other former world powers who once held our position and now do not have a similar record to boast of.

    Thoughts?
    I agree. However, America has not done enough to free people from the opressive tyranny of TKD McDojangs. Join the liberation front! :)
  4. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 4:34pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    We're straying way off course here. I'll just say that no other nation in the history of mankind ever built itself up to the position of the supreme military might in the world and not used that power for territorial acquisitions. And no other such nation used that military might to free so many from tyranny, as opposed to placing conquered people under tyranny.

    Perhaps it is not our self-esteem, but the self-esteem of other former world powers who once held our position and now do not have a similar record to boast of.
    Thoughts?
    This is actually the point that I was working to make. I don't think a day goes by that we Americans don't go out of our way to remind the world how we are oh so very different, that our motives are particularly pure, that the free world owes us a huge debt etc etc etc. I'm left wondeing who it is that we are working to convince.

    I hear people complaining about Korea but I don't hear anyone admitting that we sold the whole country to Japan in return for the Phillipines. And i don't hear anyone owning that we were the ones who installed Syngman Rhee as a dictatorial president beginning nearly 20 years of military dictatorship in that country.

    I hear people complain about Muslim extremism and terroism, but I don't hear anyone accepting responsibility for the dictatorships we supported such as the Shah of Iran or Saddam Hussein of Iraq in order to manipulate commercial agreements in that area.

    I can say that I thoroughly understand the "Voice of America" image that many people like to promote. Unfortunately I spent some time out from behind the "Baseball-Chevrolet-Apple Pie" mask that most Americans like to think is reality. Personally I am quite sure that the TKD issues we are discussing are in no small way a microcosm for the larger drama of illusion, misrepresentation and abuse that we Americans have visited on this planet.

    Certainly this is only the opinion of one person and, as always, "your mileage may vary."

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  5. StuartA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 4:49pm


     Style: Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    If it's good, it's not TKD.
    Sorry, I disagree.. just cos the TKD you learnt in 5 years was poor is not a good yard stick on all TKD.. just what you`ve seen!


    Stuart
  6. StuartA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 5:00pm


     Style: Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why are people so concerned about what is tkd? I mean nearly all arts spring from another, from someones personal take on what they learnt, its no secret that TKD roots lie in Shotokan and is General Choi's koreanised version of it, due to national pride etc etc. These threads are on every forum, but you never seen a thread on BJJ not recognising its judo roots and calling it BJJ!! (Or maybe you do, I dont know.. Ive just not seen em).

    All in all, whats the big deal!

    Okay.. to answer the question..TKD is Gen Choi's take on what he learnt and thought would be good for korea, his infantry divsion etc etc.

    What is involved in the art.. lots of things, many put forth in Gen Choi's manuals, others institued in the name of TKD by instructors with BB in other arts!

    Is it good or bad? depends on how its taught!


    Stuart
  7. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 5:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you never seen a thread on BJJ not recognising its judo roots and calling it BJJ!!
    Search function, noob! There's been several on BJJ being Basicallu Just Judo. Besides, I don't think they've ever really denied their Judo roots.
  8. StuartA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 6:06pm


     Style: Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    Search function, noob! There's been several on BJJ being Basicallu Just Judo. Besides, I don't think they've ever really denied their Judo roots.
    Emphasis on "...Ive just not seen em".. a point with regards to the question at hand only!

    Has TKD denied its Shotokan roots btw?
    Last edited by StuartA; 2/22/2007 6:11pm at .
  9. StuartA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 6:09pm


     Style: Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Can I return your book?

    jk
    Why do you say that?

    Okay.. maybe I should of expanded the previous points etc. but have just read the same thing over and over again.. the history of TKD isnt that obscure is it? Or is it?

    If you made that statement because it came across as "I believe" its the sole creation of Gen choi.. then I apologise for portraying myself incorrectly, because I don beleive thats the case (as you know, as I ve stated it in the book!)

    !!!!

    The main point of my wine induced post (I knew I shouldnt have was ... "Is it good or bad? depends on how its taught!"


    Stuart


    Stuart
  10. StuartA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/23/2007 1:12am


     Style: Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Because there are so many things out there operating under the name "TKD". What I do looks a little bit like what you do, and what some other people do looks nothing like what I do. Yet are we all truly TKD just "because"?


    A lot of other martial arts are defined styles. "Oh look at that guy. He's kyokushin. That other guy is shotokan and the guy next to him is shito ryu."
    Yes, I agree with your points.. my previous post was perhaps a little off centre. I was in a funny mood whilst having a sip of the good stuff!


    I work out with people for the first time and they tell me, "That's not tae kwon do!" Excuse me?
    Ive not actually encountered that myself.. Im more use to people asking me what it is!


    The kwans did all the hard work advancing shotokan into TKD. Gen. Choi came along afterwards and tried to impose a style on something that was better left unstyled.
    Well yes and thats something I agree with which didnt really come across in the last post... (I have slapped my wrist for possibly looking like a nutrider when thats not the case at all)



    Bottom line: If TKD people can not explain what TKD is, who can?
    Well.. yup. Like I said, I was in a weird mood and guess wasnt thinking about the bigger picture of it all!

    Stuart
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