I dont buy a lot of what is stated many times.
But i will, under fear of Bullshido ridicule and laughter share a couple of similiar things, but will ONLY share ones that only I have experienced, no second hand stories.
1. One XY instructor I had, you could punch him in the chest/stomach as hard as you wanted and he shrugged it off. I never really asked and I only did it once. I never saw him demonstrate it again. While that sounds more "movie" then it is, he was someone who was afraid of people thiniking things were mystical or magical and rather then have that, he kept them to himself.
2. Another instructor I had, who had a gut you could measure ball-bearings by, during a demonstration, grabbed me by my arms and pulled me, hitting me with his gut that knocked the wind out of me.
I have a couple others, but these are the relevant ones to this thread and are first hand accounts rather than he said/she said. I also never really inquired as to HOW this was practiced/trained, as it almost seemed....rude to.
However at no time did they EVER imply, utilize, or flower words or concepts to explain it. There was never a 'I use the chi I store" or "I become one with the earth and summon the strength of mountains into my gut"
So is it legit? Well, I tried as hard as I could, as strong as I could to hit that gut with as much force as I could and it didnt phase em in the least.
So rather than use this as a You Must Believe me story, take it as you wish...
I don't always know what to make of stories as the ones that you shared.
I know that the famous magician, Houdini, was very proud of being able to take full power strikes to his abdomen. In fact, according to tradition its was the failed results of one such strike that contributed to his death. The reason that I mention Houdini, is because I note that most often such abilities are a function of the individual's action. What I mean is that the individual with the skill-set is in control of the event by having time to set himself, or (as in your example) he is the one who initiates the event. I simply have not heard that much about people who one to randomly step-up to in a crowd and strike to no effect.
Flipping the coin over, I also think that this is the probelm with a great many "pressure point" individuals such as George Dillman. Whether or not he can actually do what he does is, in my book, not really the point. Whether he can apply his PP work in the free give-and-take of a three minute sparring event seems to be more to the point. May I also add that most reports I have read (See: Bishop) regarding the use of PP work in this fashion seems to be a function of massive energy and internal damage due to concussive technique. I have not seen any authentic PP reports other than that. No real point; just pitching into the pot, as it were.
I agree and 100% understand and respect your decision. I realize what the stories I posted might do. I personally am in the same boat as you and that is why i did not want to share any second-hand stories, only the ones that I have experienced. The only reason i did choose to post them was because i am a sceptic and detest when people claim to move things with chi, thowing people without touching them, the Shaolin tricks that are just practiced physics, all that stupid crap.
And who am I anyway? A poster on board, so I realize there is little credibility behind it, so that is why I offered them and you can take or leave them. But that is why I only wanted to share things I had experienced, in the event that I might be asked to provide additional details.
As far as doing these things in a public forum, I would say that the instructors mentioned above just arent those kind of people. They are not ones to show a public forum to show off or the like. They did not teach as a main source of income so it was side cash for them and they never did much advertising or self-promotion.
There also is a pretty known piece of footage of Vince Black hitting Mike Patterson in the stomach with a sledgehammer. (At one point it was on youtube, looking now but cant find, someone else might have, it is on the beginning of Patterson's videos). But both of these individuals are well respected fighters and trainer of fighters.
Just somethings to think about:)
--I also have read this, although it was the .38 long colt revolver that the .45 replaced. The .30 caliber Krag-Jorgensson rifles worked well, being only slightly inferior to the .30-'06 Springfield.
Originally Posted by glad2bhere
One thing I have always heard was that the Moros were "drugged" or high on some local plant product, which was one reason the .38 revolvers lacked "knock down" power. I can't find much on the internet supporting that. In fact the casualty figures were very lopsided, most of the hype about 'fanatical, drugged Moros taking bullet hits only to keep coming and cut down soldiers with their kris' appears to have come from a few ambushes and U.S. assaults on fortified positions which would have been difficult with twice the firepower . . .
Does anybody actually do body conditioning?
there is nothing mythical about iron shirt training. it's just getting hit all over yourbody to get stronger.
the secret to taking a shot to the stomach is to pop out the stomach. not suck in the stomach. this makes your stomach like a balloon.
I don't think there is anything harmful about iron shirt, because your aren't training joints. Bone is just bone.
Well I hate to use him as an example again but Yang jwing Ming talks about Golden Bell Cover. Forgive me for using his writings as an example. His book "Muscle/Tendon Changing & Brain/Marrow Washing" go into the the aforementioned topics & he says implicitly that Golden Bell Cover came from those two excercises just as many qi gong excercises in general were derived from the Da Mo's Yi Gin Ching ( The above mentioned muscle/tendon changing). Whether this is true or not I don't know but there can be no doubt that the Golden Bell Cover must use very similar techniques.
I say this because the muscle/tendon changing,etc.,etc. uses wire whips to condition the body as well as chinese pestles which generally have a rather pointy end ( handle probably), & bags of ball bearings that are also used to slap the body. Another tool supposedly used were wooden balls that were rolled along the body in a massage type technique. As was mentioned earlier, one of the key body parts effected by this training was the fascia but purportedly the bones were also effected. Iron shirt on the other hand was either an earlier method of the golden bell cover or a simplified less complete version but they are not exactly the same. basicly from what i understand, iron shirt just made teh torso tougher where as the golden bell cover made the entire body very resilient. The only two places said to remain vulnerable were the eyes & the groin but they had a unique method of making the testicles nigh impervious by drawing them up inside themselves. Don't doubt the last part because it is possible. Whoever came up with the technique must have derived it from some sort of yogic method ( or at least I think so), because Indian practitioners of hatha yoga can do all sorts of odd things like that. I know of an excercise that is based of of nauli* abdominal control technique whereby the practioner can actually expel his intestines & wash them out from the inside! I also understand that if you don't have a proper instructor that you can really mess yourself up.
In any case whatever the real truth is, the eyes were supposedly the only vulnerable spot left on the body. I don't know what the technique is but I have heard ( don't really remember where) that there was a technique & eyewash that could be used to toughen them as well. Again if a competent instructor wasn't around, you could go blind from such practices. This may be where the chinese gentleman who's pic was posted earlier, injured his eyesight. Even if this method were true, my eyesight is to precious for me to even contemplate such an endeavor.
Both golden bell cover & iron shirt use internal practices to help achieve the desired effect. I have never tried to attempt either one but from what I understand the late teens & early twenties are the best times to engage in it if your going to do it. No doubt because the body is very mature & healing is more rapid. I've also heard of sword blows bouncing off of people that had golden bell cover but i think this is a trick more than anything. All the sources I've ever heard talk about it said that during the process, air fills the fasci like a balloon. How this would be achieved I have no idea, but the trick is in getting the sword to hit you without being drawn over the area it hits. A sharp fairly light weapon like a sword has to drawn over the hit area in order to cut & in many bladed chinese weapons, it's only the tip that supposed to be razor sharp like in the case of the Dao, the middle has an edge, the blade toward the hilt has none, & the tip is very sharp.
I can see someone getting hit with the middle of the Dao & if it lands flat with no drawing motion, not being cut. I cannot see it happening with the tip at all, whether it's drawn or not if it's extremely sharp because the micron sized teeth will penetrate like tiny daggers.
Well that's the extent of my knowledge on this subject. I've never seen it in action in person, never developed it so I don't know if it works or not. I can tell you a conditioning excercise that does work & I've actually taken it from Muay Thai. Take a wooden dowel about 2 inches thick & beat your shins up & down & to either side with it. Do it twice a day for 15 minutes on each shin. You also do both shins twice each session for a total of 1hour per session. You hit just hard enough to cause enough pain that it just starts to really hurt. Do it every other day. You know those yellow, metal poles that they put up infront of parking spaces? After about a year I was able to kick those with about 1/4th force using my shin. One more thing, after each session massage your shins thoroughly.
*Nauli excercises are very healthy for you as the can be used to clean out your intestines though not as efficiently as the above described method. One or two days practice with them will verify this as your crap will be very black & sticky until you have excreted all the clogged up waste inside you which could take months. I've tried them & I'm here to tell you that they work unequivocally. You will go through a roll of TP very fast though:tongue5:
Last edited by doktorhook; 7/13/2007 1:18am at .
Waste does not "clog up" in the intestines in normal people. If you had impacted waste, the intense pain would not allow you to go about your daily business.
Originally Posted by doktorhook
I get a kick out of the fact that this forum scrutinizes the BS in martial arts, yet doesn't bat an eye at alternative health BS. What's next, ear candling?
If you want to say hey that's fake fine. You want to turn it into holisitic vs Western Medicine take it out of the CMA style forum.
It is that simple. I like how you want to turn a MArtial Art BS forum into a Medical BS forum.
I'm not a doctor or a Nurse so I can't say OMG that is Fake. Chi huggery, Dim Mak, Pressure Points (death and symptom causing) are debunked here on a regular basis.
Colon cleaning Herbal rectal fake or not I can't comment on because I don't know. I think it is a concoction that expands when it hits fluids. So, it looks way worse coming out because of what you put in your body. I think you'd get similar results with an enema just not as scary looking.
I know what it is but how does steel jacket actually work? I understand that one must practice a combination of hard chi gong breathing excersises and hitting self with a brick or iron bar or something but what actually happens to the body to enable it to withstand so much force?
Okay, I have been checking this for a while now, so listen:
I am a big guy, always have been, and I am 80 lbs over normal. So every gym class we dud situps in, I had trouble. I eventually worked until I could do 20 without feeling it. Then to 40. When I went to the YMCA, I worked out on the abs machine till I maxed it out at...I think 195. I don't remember, but that's not the point. I read about golden bell, and remembering houdini's stunts that eventually got him killed, I logically narrowed it down to being able to tighten ab muscles to where a hit would not get through to your internals, and only leave a surface bruise. I tried it, got some boy from my weight training class to hit me in the stomach and took it easily. Other people tried it, too, and I can take them. I even had my weight training friend stand on my gut, and he's like 250+, as per shaolin rumor of weights on the gut to train the technique (it is actually another effective method of increasing ab strength, albeit much more perilous). Try it and see. I don't know about other body parts, but I think that those are possible too. As for blades, I read somewhere that blades CAN AND WILL BUST YOUR ASS, so don't try them. The tech is for blunt trauma impact only. No, I can't take Muhammed Ali to the gut (I don't train that emphatically), but I can take the typical streetfighter. Actually, it is easy to use IRL combat, too, if you make it a reflex to tighten your abs quickly. By the way, I haven't worked on my solar plexus so much (don't know how to train those specific muscles), so I ain't invincible. Oh, and as for gladiators being chunky peeps, check it: fat=pillow. However, fat makes slaps hurt more, and make you a larger and slower target for blades (unless you are an armor wearing gladiator, at which cuts and stabs become blunt trauma, which is where fat helps), so take your own risks there.