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  1. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 11:17am


     Style: Xing-Yi

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgSPsiQhAZk


    Wang Shu Jin in the first half. Dont know if it is spefically Golden Bell. The beginning Belly Punches
    Last edited by dwhomp; 2/20/2007 11:20am at .
  2. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 3:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

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    That video was cool. Good representation of monkey in it too.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  3. ironlurker is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 9:27pm


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    Hi there, just wanted to say that Golden Bell/Jin Zhong Zhao is described in Jin Jing Zhong's 1934 "72 Training Methods of Shaolin" (p. 101). He says, quote , "It is the most important hard exercise out of all 72 arts. This exercise is rather complicated and difficult . . . it is of no importance whether the enemy punches or kicks it will do no harm. Even a sword blow will do any injury to a man who practices 'Golden Bell'." He says "the gist of this method is similar to Iron Shirt", and involves repetitive striking conditioning of the body with mallets of progressively harder materials. Supposedly the descriptions of the exercises in his book are extremely terse, so I'd suspect there is more to it than that. I read on a forum once that "Golden Bell" is to "Iron Vest" as "Internal" is to "External", but that may very well have been simply a snappy formula someone on the interwebs came up with. On a side note, Jin Jing Zhong refers constantly to Wuxia novels, and it seems he may accept them as factual history or source material, in the same way many modern occultists do the Cthulhu fiction of Lovecraft. He also has a picture of himself dressed as a Wuxia knight, and several passages describe how he fncked himself up by training the "ancient Shaolin methods." For someone who reads Chinese, I think it would make for a fascinating thesis to study if people who were confused about the reality of Wuxia may have given CMA a LARPing infection. For the record, I don't speak or read Chinese and would not remotely attempt to pretend I do- I read this in translation.
  4. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 11:20am


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    First of all, thanks for realizing that Fong Sai-yuk movies are almost ALL comedies.

    Second of all, think of the tale of Achilles. Remember WHY he has an "Achilles Heel" and didn't you have a "WTF?" moment with that one too? I mean.....his HEEL? What the hell is that? Who DIES from taking a shot to the heel? (or achilles tendon as the case may be)
    This wasn't a comedy- it was an old- 1973 Fu Sheng movie- very gory and fatalistic. Everyone dies a tragic death at the end but the guy that went on to start Hung Gar. FU Sheng died in 1980? Fu Sheng played Fong Sai Yuk in about 7 or 8 movies, and while he did some funny kung fu (i.e. Slick moves with a fan) non were comedies. This si some truly useless knowledge, BTW.
  5. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 11:28am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    Looking for an opinion:

    If one were to drop the more esoteric practices such as writing chants on paper; burning the paper and eating the ashes, isn't what we are talking about pretty common in modern practice. It seems that there are no end of folks who use medicine balls and even bowling balls to test their desensitization to impact? I recall one boxer who routinely dropped a bowling ball on his torso, including his groin for just this sort of effect. Tak Kubota is reputed to regularly whack his hands with a mallet. And there was a character in the movie IRON AND SILK (supposedly based on a real individual) who repeatedly beat his knuckles against a steel plate. Wouldn't makiwara training constitute a kind of "Golden Bell"-like training? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  6. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 11:34am

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironlurker
    Hi there, just wanted to say that Golden Bell/Jin Zhong Zhao is described in Jin Jing Zhong's 1934 "72 Training Methods of Shaolin" (p. 101). He says, quote , "It is the most important hard exercise out of all 72 arts. This exercise is rather complicated and difficult . . . it is of no importance whether the enemy punches or kicks it will do no harm. Even a sword blow will do any injury to a man who practices 'Golden Bell'." He says "the gist of this method is similar to Iron Shirt", and involves repetitive striking conditioning of the body with mallets of progressively harder materials. Supposedly the descriptions of the exercises in his book are extremely terse, so I'd suspect there is more to it than that. I read on a forum once that "Golden Bell" is to "Iron Vest" as "Internal" is to "External", but that may very well have been simply a snappy formula someone on the interwebs came up with.
    See, I have a hard time swallowing the "Multiple paths to the top of the mountain" type of argument. Now, did you mean to say that "Golden Bell" is reputed to prevent injury from sword strikes? I find that hard to believe. I am aware that there is an herbal formula out there that will toughen the skin, like leather. But, this does not sound like it.

    I've trained in many reputed old Shaolin methods and never did me no harm. And Iron vest is "internal" So I get no gleam from what your intrawebs tell you.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  7. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 12:03pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Looking for an opinion:

    If one were to drop the more esoteric practices such as writing chants on paper; burning the paper and eating the ashes, isn't what we are talking about pretty common in modern practice. It seems that there are no end of folks who use medicine balls and even bowling balls to test their desensitization to impact? I recall one boxer who routinely dropped a bowling ball on his torso, including his groin for just this sort of effect. Tak Kubota is reputed to regularly whack his hands with a mallet. And there was a character in the movie IRON AND SILK (supposedly based on a real individual) who repeatedly beat his knuckles against a steel plate. Wouldn't makiwara training constitute a kind of "Golden Bell"-like training? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Well, that's all "external"
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 12:44pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Looking for an opinion:

    It seems that there are no end of folks who use medicine balls and even bowling balls to test their desensitization to impact? I recall one boxer who routinely dropped a bowling ball on his torso, including his groin for just this sort of effect. Tak Kubota is reputed to regularly whack his hands with a mallet.
    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Okay lets separate the movie stuff you are talking about and reality okay.

    If one were to drop the more esoteric practices such as writing chants on paper; burning the paper and eating the ashes, isn't what we are talking about pretty common in modern practice.
    I can name the movies you go this from it isn't an issue. Let's not discuss movies and paper eating.

    We've all agreed it is a type of conditioning that leads to the result IP or Golden Bell(thanks omar).

    And there was a character in the movie IRON AND SILK (supposedly based on a real individual) who repeatedly beat his knuckles against a steel plate. Wouldn't makiwara training constitute a kind of "Golden Bell"-like training? Thoughts?
    Master Pan QingFu is a real kung fu practitioner. In a documentary he repeatedly hit a steel plate. Thing is his knuckles are fucked up and ugly.
  9. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 2:27pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??

    We've all agreed it is a type of conditioning that leads to the result IP or Golden Bell(thanks omar).
    I haven't really agreed to that, but I do accept the language problems contributing to confusion. I would expect there to be a "golden bell program" How else do you get "golden bell?"

    You don't get "iron palm" just from hitting your hand on a bag of beans or even a steel plate (ouch). But then again, the question is "Must internal methods be used, is it all external?" I would anser that question by stating the internal is a necessary component, and it's hardly external. As an example makiwari board training is external, you just strike a board, your hands calcify you end up crippled. Iron palm is internal, you strike a bag of shot and not hard, no degenerative process is realized, but after many years I believe the hand will get larger.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  10. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 2:32pm


     Style: Xing-Yi

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Master Pan QingFu is a real kung fu practitioner. In a documentary he repeatedly hit a steel plate. Thing is his knuckles are fucked up and ugly.
    He also had huge medical problems and was flown to places around the world for treatment for ailments that whose causes were unknown. The only reason i know this was a blurb in the paper about the Cleveland Clinic decades ago.

    Some say it could be because of his training methods.

    I am not offering opinions, just a blurb i remember.
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