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  1. Dade_Murphy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 10:23pm


     Style: Depraved Indifference

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a well known medical fact that causing damage to bone structure and allowing it to heal increases bone density. Euichi Ryu is way into hand/ body conditioning... It's perfectly legit and takes many years of constant injury and abuse.
    That being said, the training is done against hard objects like a maki wara, tree etc. I began training on a maki wara when I was young and ended up leaving Uechi because of constant injury. While these techniques can induce some amazing results, you should weigh the practicality i.e. how often you actually have to defend yourself vs. how much you want arthritis and constant injury.
  2. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 10:28pm


     Style: CMA, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dade_Murphy
    It's a well known medical fact that causing damage to bone structure and allowing it to heal increases bone density. Euichi Ryu is way into hand/ body conditioning... It's perfectly legit and takes many years of constant injury and abuse.
    That being said, the training is done against hard objects like a maki wara, tree etc. I began training on a maki wara when I was young and ended up leaving Uechi because of constant injury. While these techniques can induce some amazing results, you should weigh the practicality i.e. how often you actually have to defend yourself vs. how much you want arthritis and constant injury.
    That's why IP practitioners hit a bag, and not a hard surface.
  3. Dade_Murphy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 10:31pm


     Style: Depraved Indifference

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's why IP practitioners don't break brick with their fingertips... or have similar definitive proof of its effectiveness!
  4. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 11:08pm


     Style: CMA, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dade_Murphy
    That's why IP practitioners don't break brick with their fingertips... or have similar definitive proof of its effectiveness!
    ...at breaking bricks.

    Sorry to play devils advocate, but that doesn't show medically observable evidence. I do IP and have broken concrete patio slabs, but it doesn't probe a study about how my hand has physiologically changed.
  5. Dade_Murphy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 11:29pm


     Style: Depraved Indifference

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK... first go to college. Next, take Anatomy and Physiology. Then ask your professor what happens when microfractures happen and heal. Then break a brick over your head like Johnny Cache... then you'll know that you might have been right.
  6. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2008 11:33pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While we're on the topic of Iron Palm, I've always wondered the following:

    -Does increased hand toughness equal increased power generation?

    i.e. "Sure, I can break ten concrete slabs, but I still punch with the power of a 10 year old" or "I can break bones as easily as I can break concrete."

    The reason I ask is that common sense states that forward striking power is increased by:

    1. Increased Muscle Mass
    2. Technical Expertise
    3. Repetition

    Since the Iron Palm training videos I've briefly seen tend to show the practitioner striking downwards towards a stand, I've always been curious as to how (or if) this benefits forward striking (aside from toughening the surface).

    Following this thought, wouldn't it make more sense to affix the bag to a post (ala kyokushin makiwara training) or wall and perform horizontal strikes against it?

    That way, you'd at least build repetition in forward striking while conditioning the hands.

    I must be missing something here, so please correct me.
  7. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2008 12:47am


     Style: CMA, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dade_Murphy
    OK... first go to college. Next, take Anatomy and Physiology. Then ask your professor what happens when microfractures happen and heal. Then break a brick over your head like Johnny Cache... then you'll know that you might have been right.
    I wasn't disagreeing with that, I was commenting on the post I quoted.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2008 11:10am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Microfractures do not equal scientific proof that Iron Palm works. That is what we use to validate the IP training.

    There is no factual link to IP and Micro Fractures from a study.

    In other words there is no double blind study, that has been done, to prove your or others scientific assertions.

    As I said earlier, I believe it works. I just hate when people say there is scientific proof and then move to research concerning fractures. Breaking your hand in a car accident doesn't validate IP. Studies done on other breaks doesn't automatically validate IP training.

    Unfortunately scientific studies don't work that way.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 2/03/2008 11:13am at .
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2008 12:21pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The hokum associated with IP and unwillingness of its participants to examine what aspects of it are truly useful are consistently disappointing to me, as are people that hold up various breaks as signs of improved body structure. Breaks are performed with a mastery of physics and timing, the marginal increase in bone density derived from any exercise do not enable them. Iron Palm seems to have three components - hand conditioning, hitting practice, and behavioral modification. I would like to see some sort of attempt to look at the aspects separately, because it is my honest suspicion that any benefit of note is derived from the hitting practice - the working of the bag.

    Proper hitting technique is the best way to protect your hand. Practice on a bag is the best way to build proper hitting technique.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2008 1:20pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    I would like to see some sort of attempt to look at the aspects separately, because it is my honest suspicion that any benefit of note is derived from the hitting practice - the working of the bag.

    Proper hitting technique is the best way to protect your hand. Practice on a bag is the best way to build proper hitting technique.
    I've said this on multiple threads and it is why I say it works. I've also said that there are better training methods IMO.

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