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  1. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 11:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See, Iron palm is the name of a exercise, Iron Vest is the name of an exercise, 18 monks is the name of an exercise. What exercise, from what system comes this "golden bell?"
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  2. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 11:46am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Golden Bell and Iron Shirt are not so much systems as much as they are constellations of beliefs.

    Prior to the Boxer Rebellion in 1900, there was actually very little in the way of organized Chuan Fa styles. For this reason, and the failings of the central government, most Boxing systems were "village kung fu" and included an assortment of weapons, boxing and esoteric practices. Conditioning of the body to take punishment was as much a form of training as it was faith in the traditional approaches to explaining the cosmos such as Taoism and Chinese medicine. (See: Escherick)

    The fact is that following the encroachment of Western influences on Asian institutions there has always been a sore-spot of contention between which was more viable in dealing with the modern world: Western Science and Technology or "ancient Chinese secrets". This conflict has gone on for about 3 centuries, now beginning with the Dutch, Prtugese, Spanish and the Jesuits (See: Morris) and does not seem to be any closer to resolution now than when it started.

    BTW: Don't be too hard on the Chinese about what seems like superstitious behaviors. Some of the sports figures in modern competition have been known not to wash or change their clothes for fear of breaking a winning streak. Just people being people. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  3. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 12:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I got no idea what "golden bell" translates from.

    "iron shirt", and "iron palm" are not exercises. They are just trained abilities. It's just a habit of the speech.. . a COOL habit. Training your self to take body shots is called "iron shirt" or more accurately, the ability to take body shots. Talking about Muay Thai in Chinese I say that they train "iron leg gong". People who specialize in headbuts have "iron head". Anyone with truly specialized palm striking, I mean serious slap you so hard your grandkids will be dizzy, that's "iron palm".

    Different schools have their own specialized ways of training these various abilities but all the WORD(s) mean is that whatever part of the body or whatever is refered to as "iron ___" has been trained to be tough as fucking hell. Don't make to much of it. AFAIK, "iron bell" is just another name for "iron shirt" but since I have never seen a bilingual Chinese/English book on the subject, I can't be sure. Always gotta be carefull when speaking conclusively about what some translation of a foreign term means. Half the time it's just a weird translators choice for something you are already familiar with.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  4. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 1:48pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have seen the exercise for Iron Vest being referred to as Small Body. Would you have any insight as to why that is the case? Ever hear of "large body"?
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  5. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 1:52pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The old Shaw Brother's movies had "Golden Bell" practitioners, block swords with there forearms, staffs, etc. The most hilarious example is "Men from The Monestary", where Fang Sai Yuk (Alexander Fu Sheng) has soaked in a vat of some liniment and contracted his anus. At the end, or for some of you, the climax, he is killed by having a sword up his ass, as he does a flying sidekick. Seriously. We were sitting there going WTF?
  6. Hands is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 6:26pm


     Style: Mongolian

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    See, Iron palm is the name of a exercise, Iron Vest is the name of an exercise, 18 monks is the name of an exercise. What exercise, from what system comes this "golden bell?"
    I always thought that iron shirt and iron palm referred more to abilities, not exercises. I've seen different exercises and methods to develop an Iron palm. They were from different styles but all involved the same idea, beating your hands on hard things and putting medicine on them before and after the hitting.

    So I really think the names you are referring to are not style specific, unless its a specific exercise leading to iron palm, iron shirt, or golden bell.
  7. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 7:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    The old Shaw Brother's movies had "Golden Bell" practitioners, block swords with there forearms, staffs, etc. The most hilarious example is "Men from The Monestary", where Fang Sai Yuk (Alexander Fu Sheng) has soaked in a vat of some liniment and contracted his anus. At the end, or for some of you, the climax, he is killed by having a sword up his ass, as he does a flying sidekick. Seriously. We were sitting there going WTF?
    First of all, thanks for realizing that Fong Sai-yuk movies are almost ALL comedies.

    Second of all, think of the tale of Achilles. Remember WHY he has an "Achilles Heel" and didn't you have a "WTF?" moment with that one too? I mean.....his HEEL? What the hell is that? Who DIES from taking a shot to the heel? (or achilles tendon as the case may be)
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  8. Omar is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 7:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hands
    I always thought that iron shirt and iron palm referred more to abilities, not exercises. I've seen different exercises and methods to develop an Iron palm.
    For the most part, yes.

    The confusion is just because of the flexible nature of the language. It's like a guy is doing bench press and you ask him "What are you doing?".

    He answers, "I'm working on my chest."

    Lot's of exercises to develope your chest. In this case "iron ___" is "chest". It's not an exercise. You can do a bunch of different exercises all towards the single aim of working on your iron palm/vest. Iron ___ is the ability, not the exercise.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  9. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 12:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    makes sense.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  10. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 8:04am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps not directly related, but distantly related are the practices used in Okinawan styles such as UECHI-RYU and GOJU-RYU for testing the tonus of the practitioner when performing diaphramatic breathing. Extreme examples are such demo stand-bys as breaking 2x2 across the forearms, belly and shins while the individual is in full contraction. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
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