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  1. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 11:12am


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    throat notch takedown

    I have some trouble with the traditional 'throat notch takedown'.

    Probably one of the more practical 'pressure point techniques', it is supposed to be done by pushing fingers into opponent's throat/clavicular notch and pressing down while pulling the head forward (like thai clinch); thus bringing the opponent down on the ground.

    This tech is referred in books on Chinna, and I even heard it mentioned in some self-defense/law enforcement/police circles as a way to bring down and subdue subjects.

    Yet for some reason, I am unable to make it work on my training partner. I don't know if I miss some trick, or whether he is just weird (ie missing nerves in his neck). Even then, I would probably consider the technique not that practical if it doesn't work on everyone.

    Does anybody have experience with using this technique in sparring or for real?

    Thanks.
  2. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 1:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry to sound so flip but: like many pressure points, it only works on wimps.

    When attempted on anyone used to the discomforts that come with hard training, it is less likely to have significant effect. As well, there are those people who, just naturally, are not susceptible to such "techniques".

    If you want to try this sort of thing, make sure you have a backup plan in the event that it doesn't work.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 9/22/2013 1:32pm at .
  3. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 9:23pm


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Sorry to sound so flip but: like many pressure points, it only works on wimps."

    That might be true. Note I am not attached to this technique in any way - if it is BS like most other 'pressure points', I will just acknowledge it and do not use it. (I do not, in general, use pressure points precisely for the reason that in my experience they work only on wimps as you say).

    Yet for some reason, I though this one might be more reliable; because of the particular location,ie neck (as everybody is susceptible to chokes and strangles); that it is used in LA. Oh and one more reason: I had this done to me. I am neither much of a wimp, nor a systema student; yet I went down very quickly. The pain was quite extraordinary, moreover, I felt very dizzy afterwards, like after a choke. The again, maybe this is something peculiar to me.

    That is why I am looking for empiric results of people using this on other people.

    Edit:
    Something similar to what this guy is doing

    but I suspect the 'wimp factor' in play there.

    I also found this comment:

    "A very practical technique in the neck area is triggering the gag reflex. This can be accomplished by poking in the suprasternal notch. Supra-sternal means above sternum. The notch is evident. Just take your thumb or finger and push in there, and you'll feel the urge to cough as if something is lodged in your throat. The tissue there is more sensitive to dL/dt than delta L, meaning that to get the maximum effect you want to poke FAST."

    Which would mean that the pressure has to be sudden, almost like a strike. I have not tried that yet,always going for continuous pressure.
    Last edited by DMC; 9/22/2013 9:56pm at .
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 10:21pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can make MULTIPLE pressure points work and they aren't BS. It is the context and the claims that make them BS.

    Let's go back to your post:
    Does anybody have experience with using this technique in sparring or for real?
    This is what caused the initial response. Now, were you actually sparring hard contact, was it light, or was it a demo?
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 11:20pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    "Sorry to sound so flip but: like many pressure points, it only works on wimps."

    That might be true. Note I am not attached to this technique in any way - if it is BS like most other 'pressure points', I will just acknowledge it and do not use it. (I do not, in general, use pressure points precisely for the reason that in my experience they work only on wimps as you say).

    Yet for some reason, I though this one might be more reliable; because of the particular location,ie neck (as everybody is susceptible to chokes and strangles); that it is used in LA. Oh and one more reason: I had this done to me. I am neither much of a wimp, nor a systema student; yet I went down very quickly. The pain was quite extraordinary, moreover, I felt very dizzy afterwards, like after a choke. The again, maybe this is something peculiar to me.

    That is why I am looking for empiric results of people using this on other people.

    Edit:
    Something similar to what this guy is doing

    but I suspect the 'wimp factor' in play there.

    I also found this comment:

    "A very practical technique in the neck area is triggering the gag reflex. This can be accomplished by poking in the suprasternal notch. Supra-sternal means above sternum. The notch is evident. Just take your thumb or finger and push in there, and you'll feel the urge to cough as if something is lodged in your throat. The tissue there is more sensitive to dL/dt than delta L, meaning that to get the maximum effect you want to poke FAST."

    Which would mean that the pressure has to be sudden, almost like a strike. I have not tried that yet,always going for continuous pressure.
    Oh, yeah I've used this one.
  6. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2013 11:52pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Used it once or twice on "maybe" peolple (that place between cooperative and full out fighting) at work to decent effect.
  7. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 2:58am


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I can make MULTIPLE pressure points work and they aren't BS. It is the context and the claims that make them BS.
    I am not sure I follow. When I said BS, I meant BS as in, there are people who seem to be able to shrug off most of the nerve and fascia pressure. What do you mean by context changing it?


    Let's go back to your post:
    This is what caused the initial response. Now, were you actually sparring hard contact, was it light, or was it a demo?
    I tried the technique both in grappling sparring (I guess you can call that light sparring, if hard sparring = striking) in a clinch and later by just having him stand up and trying to take him down with it. In both cases he just coughed a bit.
  8. DMC is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 3:00am


     Style: uechi ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As for the people who said they applied it successfully - thanks for contributing. Is there a particular trick to it or do you just push as hard as you can into his throat? What reaction did you get - a full takedown, or just a "flinch"?
  9. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 8:57am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    As for the people who said they applied it successfully - thanks for contributing. Is there a particular trick to it or do you just push as hard as you can into his throat? What reaction did you get - a full takedown, or just a "flinch"?
    In my experience..I cross my first two fingers with a slight downward curve and push "in and down" on the notch. People tend to stumble and fall trying to back away. If I push straight in they tend to just step back. You of course have to push and follow them along so that they cant back away. IMO it works best as a surprise move in situations like this:



    ..go to :37 mark..not the same technique but close and in similar situations as I have seen/done.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2013 1:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used it, mostly as a surprise to get someone's attention or to screw with my brother. I've used it more against my brother than anyone else. That and ball shots! ;)

    It's works pretty well, but there can always be someone who it won't work on. Which is the same as the hollow be hind the ear. I was fighting a guy one time and had my thumb half way up to the knuckle in the hollow behind the ear, with no effect. But some people you barely touch there and they freak out. It is what it is.

    Then again, I've seen the same thing with pepper spray, but that doesn't mean we discard pepper spray all together. Just be aware of it's limitations.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
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