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  1. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2007 2:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bosco
    No. YOU'RE the idioit.

    You do Chines Kung Fu. Great. Do what I suggested. Go to your local University to train with some college level Wrestlers. Start using kicks and see how far it gets you. In fact, try using Kung Fu and see how far it gets you. You'll be pinned to the floor in under 30 seconds flat. Your time would have been better spent training in a combat art.

    Again I say, if it's striking rules only, yes the side kick can be effective if quick enough. Against a grappler - no chance.
    Correction: I used to train in Chinese Kung Fu. Of course, while I was training in Chinese Kung Fu I was also training in BJJ. I currently train in BJJ and Muay Thai. Also, Chinese Kung Fu is good when trained right.
    Wrestlers can get side kicked just like everyone else.
    Last edited by The Question; 7/11/2007 2:42pm at .
  2. Zyph is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2007 4:25pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can see the shoulder check being consider a strike. I am not sure that was they type of answer the OP was looking for though.
  3. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 2:33am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bosco
    Please, don't give me that rubbish. I think everyone here has been around long enough to realise using kicks against grapplers equals landing on the floor. Hard. Kickboxing rules - different story. If grappling is allowed, you would be foolish to use it.
    I don't deny the fact that trying to use side kicks on a grappler is a bad idea, and the grappler is probably going to get his guy in the end. He just needs to circle and then time his entry.

    However, the kicker still has a chance (although small) of hurting you.

    I've also seen a cage fight video where a grappler got KO'ed by a spinning back kick to the head. Nothing is impossible in a fight.
  4. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 2:36am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, after all the discussions, are there any videos out there which shows how Sanda guys deal with side kicks? Both:

    - middle level side kicks

    and

    - head level side kicks.

    I'd like to see how the experts do it. I did a search on youtube but only found a video of how to throw a Sanda style side kick, but nothing on defending it.
  5. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 3:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    here's a video that shows a san da student from my school, using sidekicks against a muay thai fighter at the Battle of Brooklyn, May 06. I was told he Thai boxer was 18-0 before the match(I'll check into it). It ends when he eats a spinning back kick to the liver....I was told he went to the hospital for a few days over that one. Will Preap, the san da fighter, can sidekick, axekick, and throw high roundhouses, all the while making it hard for the other fighter to catch them (I know, I spar him), it's all I can do to block them. In san da, you can throw someone or fell them to score, (catch kicks,or shoot) and still guys do get finished off with kicks. Even a simple one leg pick will score (one point) so it doesn't have to be fancy. In 12 or 16 oz gloves, catching a kick is far harder than with 4 oz gloves. I'm sorry this vid doesn't have counters to the sidekick/backkick in it (unles you count getting hit by them)....but does illustrate how it can be possible for a skilled striker to throw them if timed correctly.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WsA5YM68_Q8
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are some great low/mid roundkick counters in there.
  7. Zyph is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 4:36pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    here's a video that shows a san da student from my school, using sidekicks against a muay thai fighter at the Battle of Brooklyn, May 06. I was told he Thai boxer was 18-0 before the match(I'll check into it). It ends when he eats a spinning back kick to the liver....I was told he went to the hospital for a few days over that one. Will Preap, the san da fighter, can sidekick, axekick, and throw high roundhouses, all the while making it hard for the other fighter to catch them (I know, I spar him), it's all I can do to block them. In san da, you can throw someone or fell them to score, (catch kicks,or shoot) and still guys do get finished off with kicks. Even a simple one leg pick will score (one point) so it doesn't have to be fancy. In 12 or 16 oz gloves, catching a kick is far harder than with 4 oz gloves. I'm sorry this vid doesn't have counters to the sidekick/backkick in it (unles you count getting hit by them)....but does illustrate how it can be possible for a skilled striker to throw them if timed correctly.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WsA5YM68_Q8
    I ahve seen those fights. If that guy was 18-0 he never fought any one worth a ****. The problem I have is every San Da fight I can find with a MT fighter it looks like a B or C class fighter. The matches seem like chinese propaganda films almost. I hat to bring Up Buakau fighting there, but he is the patron saint of mt ;)

    Damn it you got me off topic.
  8. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2007 6:41pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I recall that the guy that got everyone into BJJ, Royce Gracie, used low and middle side kicks in the frist few UFC's, and the low side kick is in one of Renzo Gracies books, in the blue belt section. Last time I checked, the Gracie's were grapplers.
  9. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2007 1:32am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, I went to Cung Le's site and saw a trailer of his instructional video, what he does is the clamping move (may have been mentioned before on this thread).

    It's basically like the muay thai scoop but you clamp the other hand on top of the leg to prevent him from pulling it back.

    So basically the move looks like this:

    1) Slide slightly back to reduce impact of the kick
    2) Simultaneously scoop the kick with your left arm and clamp your right arm over the leg.

    In muay thai, to counter teeps I'm taught to always use the inner forearm bone to scoop the kick, never the hands or fingers. After you scoop, you lift to off-balance him and prevent him from retracting the leg and kicking again.

    If any sanshou guys wants to jump in and provide some finer details to the move above, pls feel free, and it'll be appreciated.
  10. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2007 7:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kicks don't work against grapplers? Someone should tell the guys fighting in the MMA this, they don't seem to cooperate with this rule.

    As far as the side-kick, I like to bash my elbow on top of the foot as I use foot work to evade. It's a dick move to do when sparring though.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
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