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  1. TEA is online now
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    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2007 4:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Some time back on another forum I put out a request for anyone who had information on the "Peddler's Guild" ("Guild of the Peddlers"?) which reportedly offered to provide security for the Korean royals in the closing days of the dynasty when there was so much intrigue, and motives could no longer be trusted. I think it would be insightful to know more about this obscure part of Choson Dyn history. Maybe it might put a different face on what so many refer to as "criminal gangs", "organized crime" and the sort of "insecurity" that the Japanese referenced for taking over security around Seoul. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Interesting, since I have a similar line of inquiry in my dissertation on Korean organized crime. If you can read Korean, I may have a copy of an article on the pobusang that you may find interesting. A couple of points of interest from my research:

    • Although there was a centralized "guild" established by the Choson Court, for the most part it is more accurate to speak of regional "guilds" that were terretorial in nature.
    • Pobusang often traded in merchandise that had been stolen by bandit gangs.
    • These guilds usually had a "youth corps" that was responsible for enforcement and seem to have had some sort of fight training.
    • The pobusang was used by the government to fight the French in the battle on Kaghwa Island and they were supposedly more capable fighters than the government forces.
    • The Taewongun (the King's father) used the pobusang to supress political dissent in the 1890s.
    • The Government General disbanded the pobusang-dam in 1910, along with the colaborationist Ilchinhoe.
    While I don't think one could say that the pobusang-dam were the direct forbears of the kknagp'ae, I think they may have had an influence on the formation of the kkangp'ae gangs during the Colonial Period. I wonder what kind of MA training the youth corps had.
  2. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2007 8:45pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEA
    Interesting, since I have a similar line of inquiry in my dissertation on Korean organized crime. If you can read Korean, I may have a copy of an article on the pobusang that you may find interesting. A couple of points of interest from my research:

    • Although there was a centralized "guild" established by the Choson Court, for the most part it is more accurate to speak of regional "guilds" that were terretorial in nature.
    • Pobusang often traded in merchandise that had been stolen by bandit gangs.
    • These guilds usually had a "youth corps" that was responsible for enforcement and seem to have had some sort of fight training.
    • The pobusang was used by the government to fight the French in the battle on Kaghwa Island and they were supposedly more capable fighters than the government forces.
    • The Taewongun (the King's father) used the pobusang to supress political dissent in the 1890s.
    • The Government General disbanded the pobusang-dam in 1910, along with the colaborationist Ilchinhoe.
    While I don't think one could say that the pobusang-dam were the direct forbears of the kknagp'ae, I think they may have had an influence on the formation of the kkangp'ae gangs during the Colonial Period. I wonder what kind of MA training the youth corps had.
    OUTSTANDING!! Is your dissertation available through UMI/Pro-Quest? Comments? If you would rather PM me thats ok as well.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  3. TEA is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2007 11:45pm

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     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

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    Yes, its available on Pro-Quest.

    Cheavens, Joseph D. "Kkangp'ae and Yakuza: Organized Crime in Colonial Korea," (Ph.D Dissertation, University of Hawai'i at Manoa, 2006).
  4. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2007 12:29am

    supporting member
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    The joy of being in a citation index.

    It never dulls.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

  5. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2007 9:37am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    Many thanks! This will help a lot to fill-in an area that many folks don't do much digging in. During my visit to Korean a year or so ago, I had hoped to check-out some of the sources concerning life during the Occupation so as to get away from many of the generalizations and begin to deal with specifics. I was rather surprised at the reluctance I ran into. It was as though as long as I wanted only overviews I was "ok". When I started asking specific questions, say, about the role of the YMCA interventions with the Korean farmers I was still "ok". When things came around to the role of the police and Korean army, or government-sanctioned programs you could almost "hear" the doors slam. Thanks again.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  6. Hendrik R. is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 1:36pm

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    Hello everybody,

    I am new here, just registered because I saw this thread. As I don't have much time right now (but can't wait posting), I just want to drop you this note:

    There is an interview given by Song Dokki, you can see it here http://mov.taekkyonkorea.com/tkkorea...2001061713.asf
    or @
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCLMmEH_88

    Song Dokki makes a statement there which might be helpful for the question / issue of TEA. Michael Pederson has translated this statement:

    "[...]
    Interviewer: When did it [taekkyon games] disappear?


    Song: Probably seventy years ago. When Japan invaded, if more than ten people gathered, they would
    disperse them with whips. People didn't want to be whipped, so they didn't gather. That's when
    taekkyon started disappearing. After Independence, Syngman Rhee (이승만) wanted to see what
    taekkyon was. Someone knew about this and told me. On Syngman Rhee's birthday, March 26 or
    25, it was very snowy. Snow was very thick and we couldn't do taekkyon outside, so we went to a
    certain gym (도장), I showed taekkyon, then we separated."

    This indicates that there was really no official ban, like a law, focussing on martial arts. Taekkyon was a sport people did together in the public (not secretly in mountains ;-)

    If one cannot follow one's hobby in a manner one ever used to, one might eventually stop doing it. For Song, there was obiously no reason to do taekkyon anymore. It was a game, but competitions were not possible anymore. Thus, he was - as far as I know - satisfied practicing Guk Gung.

    Sorry, I must leave. Hope to come back soon.



    Bye,
    Hendrik

    P.S. Btw. I made a homepage on taekkyon: www.taekkyon.de , the other article which was posted above (by Robert W. Young) is located there.
  7. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 4:51pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    To any interested parties:

    For anyone who might also want to pick-up on a copy of Joe's (Cheaven) dissertation I was able to contact the UNiversity of Hawaii at Manoa. They will sent out a copy of the dissertaion for $15USD for the first 20 pages and 25 cents for each page there after.
    By my tally that would come to about $49.25USD for the whole dissertation or about what any decent book on Korean history might run. Just food for thought.

    FYI:

    Yakuza and kkangpae : organized crime ties between Japan and Korea / by Joseph D. Cheavens Jr.
    [1994]
    x, 157 leaves, bound ; 29 cm.
    Thesis for the degree of Master of Arts (University of Hawaii at Manoa).
    Asian Studies ; no. 2389


    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Last edited by glad2bhere; 3/18/2007 4:55pm at .
  8. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 5:01pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    ".....Song: Probably seventy years ago. When Japan invaded, if more than ten people gathered, they would disperse them with whips. People didn't want to be whipped, so they didn't gather. That's when taekkyon started disappearing....."

    Unfortunately this is not supported by anecdotal responses in various parts of the country. I can understand if this was a response in the precincts around Seoul or any of the larger cites in Korea for that matter. There is still a lot of the country where there was very little in the way of impact by the Occupation including the mountainous northwestern part of the country and those areas which transitioned into Manchuko ("Manchuria") before, during and after the war. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  9. TEA is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 11:09am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    To any interested parties:

    For anyone who might also want to pick-up on a copy of Joe's (Cheaven) dissertation I was able to contact the UNiversity of Hawaii at Manoa. They will sent out a copy of the dissertaion for $15USD for the first 20 pages and 25 cents for each page there after.
    By my tally that would come to about $49.25USD for the whole dissertation or about what any decent book on Korean history might run. Just food for thought.

    FYI:

    Yakuza and kkangpae : organized crime ties between Japan and Korea / by Joseph D. Cheavens Jr.
    [1994]
    x, 157 leaves, bound ; 29 cm.
    Thesis for the degree of Master of Arts (University of Hawaii at Manoa).
    Asian Studies ; no. 2389


    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Bruce, thats my MA thesis. For my PhD dissertation, I tried to expand what was probably the weakest section of my thesis - the Colonial Period. The titles are similar, but I think my dissertation is a bit better in terms of quality. I think the strongest part of my MA thesis is the examination of the relationship between the Yakuza and the Korean minority in Japan after WWII. With regards to the Choson and Colonial Period origins of the Kkangp'ae, I don't think I do a very good job with that in my MA thesis and revised a lot of my assumptions and theories in my PhD dissertation.

    For some reason, my dissertation isn't listed in the UH Library. Here's the listing for my MA thesis:

    http://uhmanoa.lib.hawaii.edu/cgi-bi...=1&btnG=Search

    Not sure if its worth the money, though. Bruce, if you do fork out the $ for it, let me and the other Bullshido members know what you think. If you don't think its worth the $, I'd hate to see others waste their money.
    Last edited by TEA; 3/21/2007 11:16am at .
  10. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 2:41pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

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    Thanks, Joe, but I'm having some real problems with this.

    I think I am reading you to say that your PhD dissertation was an improved version of the Masters paper, yes?

    I went out on the U of H library link and found what I was sure was your PhD AND MA papers. When I called the University they said that they could not find your papers on PRO-QUEST. They DID say they were able to provide a copy of your MA but didn't seem to be able to find your PhD work. I can't figure this because it would seem to be the same work thats in their catalogue--- unless what they meant was that they can't find it "on the shelf".

    If the PhD work is the better of the two I have no problem paying out the bucks. In research I am hell-and-gone from getting my resources down at the local BARNES AND NOBLES. You know what they say: "If you can't read with the big books; stay in the magazine section"( or something like that).

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
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