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  1. biomed190 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2007 12:33am


     Style: JKD BJJ JUDO MUY THAI

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Its not so much time as much as its mat hours a person has to accrue. It works like this.

    A white Belt has to accrue 78 mat hours before they can apply to test for Yellow.
    A Yellow Belt has to accrue 156 mat hours before they can apply to test for Blue.
    A Blue Belt has to accrue 234 mat hours before they can apply to test for Brown.
    A Brown has to accrue 312 mat hours before they can apply to test for Black.

    If you figure all things being equal you can say that 78 mat hours is about 6 months or so.
    A quick tally makes the trip to Cho-dan about 5 years, two of which is spent at Brown. Does this help?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce

    yes sounds similiar to my Dojo.
  2. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2007 1:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Exactly what do you mean by " mat time " ? From what you have said so far it sounds like you need over 300 of one step sparring to finaly train against a little resistance .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  3. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2007 10:17am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Exactly what do you mean by " mat time " ? From what you have said so far it sounds like you need over 300 of one step sparring to finaly train against a little resistance .
    No, and I think this is where a lot of misunderstanding comes in as I am not the only person who uses the approach.

    a.) First off, "one-step", "two-step" and "three-step" sparring are artifacts from the efforts of Itosu and Funakoshi to shape Okinawa-Te into an acceptable form of Physical Education for the Okinawan and Japanese school system. Most people do not want to talk about this since there is much more money to be made characterizing Karate as some fighting art. If you read Funakoshi's masterwork its is abundantly plain that neither he nor Itosu held or supported this belief. The goal was to make practice safe for the students. To accomplish this, hands were closed, emphasis was placed on forms and combat (such as it was) was highly structured and regulated after the fashion of Japanese 2-person kata. In the classes that I teach, the students begin their journey using such an approach in order to get a solid grasp of the technique. However, at Brown and above we stop using grabs to initiate attacks and begin to take the materials that have been learned and use them against strikes, kicks and less structures scenerios.

    b.) Secondly, a "free-form" approach is targeting the ability to express what some Hapkido people will recognize as "The Three Principles" of Hapkido. An abbreviated explanation of these is to say that one "takes what the attacker provides", "recycles as efficiently as possible" and "uses energy as economically as circumstances allow". IMVHO a huge deficit in Hapkido is that people get used to not only dealing with one person under a highly structured approach, but also learn to perform only a single defense against that one person. Typically, Hapkido people are taught what to do if they find themselves in a "position of disadvantage". Rarely are they taught "transitions"(follow-ups to the failure of the first response), options for dealing with multiple attacks (both simulataneously and in succession) or recovery skills for dealing with contact.

    c.) "mat time" is exactly that. The Hapkido community has WAY too many people who report that they have this or that rank follow XYZ amount of years in Hapkido. Sometimes its the rank thats inflated. We all know of 20 y/o with Black Belts but check-out how many 30 y/o thre are with 7th, 8th and 9th dans. Its bad enough that such ranks are NOT TECHNICAL ranks, but traditionally administrative ranks going back to Japanese origins. Of course, these folks are not going to TELL people such rank is adminitrative, leaving the consumer publics to conclude that a 9th dan is, say, Three Times as BAD as a 3rd dan (if this makes sense). Likwise what many Hapkido people will not tell you is that they teach by direction and have stopped giving and taking technique a long time ago. In this way a person can say that they have been in Hapkido for, say, ten years, but are only actually practicing their art occasionally. In the kwan that I belong to, gueps are required to accrue actual time on the mat. Once a person is a Black Belt they are expected to submit to a specific number of years before applying for their next test. In my case I made my 4th Dan in 2004. I will need to accrue 6 years (2010) in my current grade before I can even think about testing for 5th Dan. During that time I am expected to continue to improve, expand my training, learn whatever the appropriate weapon is and so forth. For most people this is a bit too demanding, not fast enough and thats OK. There are plenty of other places they can train that aren't as stringent. I teach for free and the motto is "you show-up and you get taught. Don't show-up and you don't get taught". I'm getting just a little too old to really care. Hope this helps, Matt.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Last edited by glad2bhere; 2/16/2007 10:20am at .
  4. kwoww is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2007 10:52pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion, it would be far more prudent to test based on skill than on the amount of time that one has trained for. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a minimum time requirement between tests, but I am saying that quantity doesn't always equal quality. If your standards are high enough, they will get plenty of "mat time" before each test, without the requirement.
  5. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2007 10:56pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I know what you mean. Its a real balancing act.

    Best Wihes,

    Bruce
  6. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Here, hold these for me.

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2007 11:34am

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can kuksool and hrd be saved?
    Under present leadership? NO.

    Sung Jin Suh (the GM of kuksool's son and heir apparent) is a nice guy,
    talented, and pretty open-minded from what I hear. But as long as
    daddy is alive and calling the shots, there will be trouble.

    The fundamental problem with kuksool is that as a whole, they do not
    spar. and if they do, it is watered down. Everybody wants super ability
    without suffering for it. If you want to be a good fighter/grappler you have
    to suffer. Being hit/choked/cranked/kicked hard is not "fun" like going to
    the beach or spending an evening with the Mrs., but it has its rewards.

    The other thing: Kuk sools bylaws specifically stated (back in the mid to late
    90's when I was a 2st dahn) that NO blackbelt or higher was to train in
    any other system period. Then there are the renewing license fees, trips
    to HQ for free training and belt promotion fees that are astronomical!

    Kuk Sool has no hope because the people that comprise the leadership
    are hopeless. I know. I've been there. I've seen it. But they will always
    exist in some form because they give people what they want.....even if
    it is a false sense of security.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Its the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  7. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Here, hold these for me.

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2007 11:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not to mention the rigid ass lock down control they have. ALL techniques and forms must be the exact same. The type of uniform worn by the practicioners is even controlled.

    YOU WILL WEAR A WKSA DOBOHK!!! WITH PATCHES PROVIDED BY HQ!!!! AND YOU MUST USE OFFICIAL WKSA OVERPRICED SWORDS!!!

    If I had my wish, the Great Satan that is WKSA would be cast into the eternal lake of fire and burn day and night for all eternity.

    Wolf, the longer you are out of Kuk Sool, the more you will dislike it. I've been gone since 1999 and my hatred for it grows hotter and hotter. The more you delve into alive training and functional MA, the more you'll resent their attempts to turn you into their ATM machine.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Its the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  8. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2007 2:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    G2BH, I second the call for some video. Should be pretty easy to find someone with a digital camera that will take short vid clips, at the least. A 3 minute clip of your "free form" drilling would go a long way toward explaining what you are talking about.
  9. PSanderson is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2007 4:19pm


     Style: Aikido, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    G2BH, I second the call for some video. Should be pretty easy to find someone with a digital camera that will take short vid clips, at the least. A 3 minute clip of your "free form" drilling would go a long way toward explaining what you are talking about.
    I'll third that. In general, I'd be curious to see anything that aikido's wacky Korean cousin comes up with regarding locks/takedowns in sparring.
  10. Wolf is offline
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    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2007 7:13pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jkdbuck76
    Not to mention the rigid ass lock down control they have. ALL techniques and forms must be the exact same. The type of uniform worn by the practicioners is even controlled.

    YOU WILL WEAR A WKSA DOBOHK!!! WITH PATCHES PROVIDED BY HQ!!!! AND YOU MUST USE OFFICIAL WKSA OVERPRICED SWORDS!!!

    If I had my wish, the Great Satan that is WKSA would be cast into the eternal lake of fire and burn day and night for all eternity.

    Wolf, the longer you are out of Kuk Sool, the more you will dislike it. I've been gone since 1999 and my hatred for it grows hotter and hotter. The more you delve into alive training and functional MA, the more you'll resent their attempts to turn you into their ATM machine.
    A lot of this has actually changed. When I left all that was required was a black dobok, didn't matter where from. You only needed patches for tournaments and when you got to your bb test. They also lifted the regulation on official WKSA swords only. There's plenty else wrong though. I agree. I have to admit though, I'm curious what the organization has to say about KJN Jan Butler and his BJJ training. The ATM machine problem is definitly still around though.
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