Kote Gaeshi - Pin Or Throw.

**Kensai** · Posted On: 3/19/2003 4:48pm

Hey All,

I was talking this over with some of my fellow Aikidoka the other week. Kote Gaeshi is mostly taught as a throw, obviously as the Uke jumps over the lock to avoid unnessary damage. However, in reality, it probably would not end up the same way and evolve into a break and pin.

I remember someone like Asia saying that he has used it in real life. I just wanted to know what in "real" life it would be used as.

Regards,

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

**Fighty McGee** · Posted On: 3/19/2003 5:10pm

It can be use as a pin, but it is only effective against a pretty stiff person that's in a lot of pain from the hold. I would use it as a break/throw, and then change the hold to something else to pin. Also, in regard to it being a throw, a non-trained person will fall over backwards with an injured wrist rather than dive/roll over the hold, so it own't be as dramamtic, but much more effective in that it will produce injury.

**SamHarber** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 4:04am

I was practicing this last night, and I can attest to it not being a pin. You have two choices - go over the top and take a fairly hard breakfall, or have your wrist sprained/broken. You can only fall backwards if they're being nice to you.
Actually, I'm wrong. Once you've broken their wrist, you then have a pin, because they won't do anything to risk further damage to the wrist. Primarily its a destruction technique though.

And people say that aikido is soft :)

**Gezere** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 5:15am

It can be either. I mainly use it to breack the wrist than to throw, no I don't feel bad about breaking pples wrist if they deserve it.

Kensai 'REAL' involved a knife and later me getting in trouble for assualting a minor.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!

**Kensai** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 5:26am

Asia, I was not questioning the reality of your situation I just put it in "quotation marks" for dramatic effect.

Thats what I thought Sam...

Cheers.

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

Edited by - kensai on March 20 2003 05:28:04

**Gezere** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 8:02am

I know you weren't Kensai. I was just giving info on that situation. It was a very weird situation where little ole innocent me was brought up for assualting two minors eventhough they tried to mugg me with a knife.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 9:18am

Actually Sam, try this next time you are at class:

Uke attacks with Tsuki, and pulls the punch back after. So you should grab the wrist as you step outside. Then you should step towards/past their punching arm while maintaining kotegashi grip. With the hand opposite the one that is holding the wrist, use your palm to roll Uke's knuckles towards his elbow. Step through and "extend" down.

Ta da! Kotegashi with uke falling backwards!

**Kensai** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 10:53am

Sorry Asia, just wanted to make sure that you know that I know I was not poo pooing you. lol.

brandeisansoo, have you seen the gyaku version of it? nasty. :(

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

**SamHarber** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 11:25am

Sounds like a nice version to me :)
When we do it normally we cut down towards the knees and then back up towards the center. Uke then becomes airborne, or makes an unpleasant breaking sound.
I have to say, it's the one technique I hate recieving. I'm also appalingly bad at applying it.

**Deadpan Scientist** · Posted On: 3/20/2003 12:17pm

Kensai: I can't say if I have or not, because I have no idea what the gyaku version is! Have a picture/movie/explanation of it? Believe it or not, I haven't done any high flying ukemi as of yet, but since I haven't taken my first test yet, I'm not surprised...