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  1. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 3:06pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Infighting in a boxing sense would mean tight circular strikes such as uppercuts, hooks, bolo punches, and possibly overhand punches. At close range, power is all about your hip movement, body twisting, and quick torque. Since at close range you will tend to get to pressed, you can't use long range tactics such as an aggressive step forward with a jab/cross. There just isn't much room to step. So you must use leaning and twisting to generate power, and some strong strikes can be thrown by doing this.

    Defensively, you can shield and slip slightly, or you can bob and weave, or you clinch. Since you are obviously in range, just using distance isn't an option. You've got to use body lean and understand angles, or you've got to clinch. (See Mike Tyson in his prime for example.)

    If you get a good Thai clench on someone, you are controlling his body, and restricting his abilitiy to quickly twist his hip to generate power at close range. You will tend to negate a lot of his option. While at clench, you can obviously use knees, or momentarily release with one hand and use elbows and dirty boxing techniques. (See Randy Coutoure for dirty boxing from clench, or almost any Dutch kickboxer for knees from clench)

    Thai clenching a striker who is unused to it will tend to scare the **** out of them. Against a grappler, it can help to resist against their takedown attempts.

    Something to remember is fighting in close without a clinch can be dangerous if grappling is an option, particularly against a larger opponent. Even though you can land some good strikes from the inside, it is very likely that you might just be bum rushed and tackled. You need to be ready for this.

    Fighting off of the back of someone's shoulder (outside slip) is a bit safer defensively, as it limits the use of their rear-side weapons. They will need to square up to you to be able to use them. The drawbacks to fighting from this position is that some targets on your opponent may be more difficult to get at. If he's a boxer, he'll likely hide his chin behind his shoulder. The solar plexus is turned away from you, etc. But...his lead leg, kidney, and ribs will be very open.
    Last edited by Ryno; 2/07/2007 3:08pm at .
  2. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 3:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guizzy
    That's it! That's the boxing term, then; in-fighting! Now that answer doesn't tell much. Not everyone does boxing or trains in boxing terms, so some more details would be appreciated.
    I detailed exactly that in my post. You shouldn't ignore my posts :(
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. From Bell2Bell is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 3:56pm


     Style: The Sweet Science

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had good results with uppercuts to the body from close range. If I can get the right positioning I can smother his power and fire a couple of solid shots. I've got the feeling that that tactic could be neutralized by someone with a good Thai clinch because I have to get so close in order to do it though.
    Last edited by From Bell2Bell; 2/07/2007 4:07pm at .
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    I detailed exactly that in my post. You shouldn't ignore my posts :(
    You are not short, reasonably easy on the eyes, a lesbian, post all over the internet, post a lot here, stick questionable substances up your butt, train a heavy striking art, compete in full contact competitions, and the other half of your dynamic duo is pretty much the same way.

    Personally, I read most of what you write here.

    You are kind of hard to ignore. Considering the number of times people quote your posts, I don't think putting you on an "ignore" list would do the trick. It would be kind of silly to entertain the possibility someone might ignore you here no matter how dense they might be while reading your posts.


    :smile:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  5. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:45pm


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    I detailed exactly that in my post. You shouldn't ignore my posts :(
    Right, sorry! I guess I needed Ryno's explanation to make that obvious.

    Infighting in a boxing sense would mean tight circular strikes such as uppercuts, hooks, bolo punches, and possibly overhand punches. At close range, power is all about your hip movement, body twisting, and quick torque. Since at close range you will tend to get to pressed, you can't use long range tactics such as an aggressive step forward with a jab/cross. There just isn't much room to step. So you must use leaning and twisting to generate power, and some strong strikes can be thrown by doing this.
    Obviously, but don't you need to move your back leg into a "side stance" in order to be able to generate a full body twist that does not end with your opponent behind you?

    If you get a good Thai clench on someone, you are controlling his body, and restricting his abilitiy to quickly twist his hip to generate power at close range. You will tend to negate a lot of his option. While at clench, you can obviously use knees, or momentarily release with one hand and use elbows and dirty boxing techniques. (See Randy Coutoure for dirty boxing from clench, or almost any Dutch kickboxer for knees from clench)
    I see a lot of crossover between this and trapping range techniques present in many kung fu styles. Of course, lots of deluded ?ing ?hunners think they're to be used at punching range, and get their heads caved in without even having a chance to try to get into what would need to be their confort zone.

    Thai clenching a striker who is unused to it will tend to scare the **** out of them. Against a grappler, it can help to resist against their takedown attempts.
    Isn't clenching a big part of some grappling styles?

    Fighting off of the back of someone's shoulder (outside slip) is a bit safer defensively, as it limits the use of their rear-side weapons. They will need to square up to you to be able to use them. The drawbacks to fighting from this position is that some targets on your opponent may be more difficult to get at. If he's a boxer, he'll likely hide his chin behind his shoulder. The solar plexus is turned away from you, etc. But...his lead leg, kidney, and ribs will be very open.
    But you're talking about boxing targets, right? From there, I can clearly see some punching behind the head, easy setups for chokes or pins.

    This brings me to another part of my question. I can see most of you probably fight with boxing and muay thai guards with hands held very high. You see the style I learn uses a guard that puts the lead fist quite far from the body (think bareknuckles boxing). From that position, a punch can come from very close (oh, for the record, I'm talking about no gloves or small MMA gloves) without being an almost clinch. Is that something that people here have experience with? If so, does that have any impact on the likelyhood or techique by which someone could transition into clinching from there?
  6. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:52pm

    supporting membersupporting member
     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guizzy
    R
    This brings me to another part of my question. I can see most of you probably fight with boxing and muay thai guards with hands held very high.

    Not I.









    You see the style I learn uses a guard that puts the lead fist quite far from the body (think bareknuckles boxing). From that position, a punch can come from very close (oh, for the record, I'm talking about no gloves or small MMA gloves) without being an almost clinch. Is that something that people here have experience with? If so, does that have any impact on the likelyhood or techique by which someone could transition into clinching from there?
    In my experiance keeping your hand held far from your body makes it easier to smack aside and then strike the person.

    For instance, assuming we're both having our left hands leading I might smack your hand from the inside towards the outside with my left hand and ride it into a jab to the face.

    Or I might smack it slightly downwards from the outside with my right and ride it into a cross.

    Is this something like what you're talking about?
    Last edited by Anna Kovacs; 2/07/2007 4:56pm at .
  7. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I can see most of you probably fight with boxing and muay thai guards with hands held very high."

    Don't watch much boxing or muay thai, do you? Winky Wright is one of the only boxers I can think of that holds his hands up high. Most hold their hands at chin level or lower. A high guard is more common for muay thai, but it's still almost more common for thai boxers to hold their hands... not high.

    I tend to keep hands floating outside around collar bone level.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  8. From Bell2Bell is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 5:06pm


     Style: The Sweet Science

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Or I might smack it slightly downwards from the outside with my right and ride it into a cross.

    I like to do this, but it usually involves knocking their jab out of the way first and then countering with a straight.
  9. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 5:30pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    In my experiance keeping your hand held far from your body makes it easier to smack aside and then strike the person.

    For instance, assuming we're both having our left hands leading I might smack your hand from the inside towards the outside with my left hand and ride it into a jab to the face.

    Or I might smack it slightly downwards from the outside with my right and ride it into a cross.

    Is this something like what you're talking about?
    Yeah, this is a really nice technique against anyone who keeps their hands out far. I use this all of the time as I shuffle in. I tend to do a little slap downward, which immediately loops up to a jab, followed by a cross.

    One of my Kyokushin aquaintances actually likes to hit people's forearms if they keep their fist out and the arm extended. It's a quick knuckle slap, which stings a bit and is pretty annoying. Usually after he's done it a few times they'll start flinching, and he just goes for something else.

    Another thing to watch out for with the extended arm is someone just grabbing and jerking it as they hit, or even more obviously a grappler snatching it for an arm bar.
  10. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 5:37pm


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    In my experiance keeping your hand held far from your body makes it easier to smack aside and then strike the person.

    For instance, assuming we're both having our left hands leading I might smack your hand from the inside towards the outside with my left hand and ride it into a jab to the face.

    Or I might smack it slightly downwards from the outside with my right and ride it into a cross.

    Is this something like what you're talking about?
    Pretty close, altough not completely extended. Usually, the range is defined by what southern CMAs call a bridge (the structural position in which the elbow is in relation to the rest of the body, the elbow no further nor closer than one fist from the body) make smacking an arm away harder than your description make it to be.

    Don't watch much boxing or muay thai, do you? Winky Wright is one of the only boxers I can think of that holds his hands up high. Most hold their hands at chin level or lower. A high guard is more common for muay thai, but it's still almost more common for thai boxers to hold their hands... not high.

    I tend to keep hands floating outside around collar bone level.
    I guess high is not the word I should have used. Vertical is more what I meant, where in contrast the angle I have between my arm and forearm is about 90 degrees, with the tip of the index finger's second knucke about at nose height.



    Like this fellow, except I have to grudgingly admit he's quite a bit more dashing than I am, and that I turn my body to face my opponent rather than leave it sideways.
    Last edited by Guizzy; 2/07/2007 5:54pm at .
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