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  1. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 10:44pm


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Taking the inside, the outside

    Basically, what I want to discuss is what people of different striking arts do about and against taking their opponent's inside or outside. I don' know if this is CMA specific, but what I mean by inside is being inside their opponent's guard; ie having your hands or fists so close that no guard can be put up, outside being working around the guard from the sides keeping the person from turning back to face you.

    Do you other styles strikerer attempt to work with that paradigm? If not, from the basic description of these states, what is a typical response to it?
  2. vinhthekid is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 2:55am


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's called plumbing or thai clinch dude.
  3. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 3:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's that. Pummeling around the guard for elbows, too (I haven't done much of this in my muay thai training unfortunately).

    Or boxing from the inside. Boxers will do things like nudging a guy's head out of his guard a bit with their arm/shoulder to open up for an uppercut/hook. Then there are of course close range body shots and what not. Tight hooks (generally using a horizontal fist) from clinch range are also commonly used.

    Really good counter punchers in boxing often have a very solid inside game where they'll let their opponent close the distance and use really good evasion skills to work the inside game.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  4. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:04am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guizzy
    Basically, what I want to discuss is what people of different striking arts do about and against taking their opponent's inside or outside. I don' know if this is CMA specific, but what I mean by inside is being inside their opponent's guard; ie having your hands or fists so close that no guard can be put up, outside being working around the guard from the sides keeping the person from turning back to face you.

    Do you other styles strikerer attempt to work with that paradigm? If not, from the basic description of these states, what is a typical response to it?
    I don't really understand what you're asking but I'll try my best.

    If the person is too close to guard against, he must have his head on your shoulder. In that range, you'll employ clinch fighting techniques.

    Otherwise you can still guard your head. From here (not clinch), things you can use:

    - horizontal elbows
    - downward diagonal elbows
    - neck clinch and knee
    - grab his shoulder and knee
    - push him with one arm and cover your face with another (muay thai push?), followed by roundhouse kick to midsection
    - drop your weight, push explosively into him sideways or diagonally to break his balance, then right cross to his chin

    If he's outside your range normally you'll try to circle off away from his strong (back) side. I like to tap the opponent's gloves quickly to judge distance, and break his timing, then teep him hard in the belly area. If I can't touch his gloves, I can't reach him.

    If he moves in, I'll teep him. A teep is a pushing kick you do with the ball of your feet. Mastering this one technique will help you frustrate many people.

    When the opponent is fresh, I tend to use the teep a lot, and focus on front leg kicks to his inside thigh (both orthodox) and jabs. I also like to counter off his low kicks. After he's panting a bit and not as focused do I go in for leg kicks and body kicks. Others may have different strategies.

    Try to break his rhythm before you attack. I find that tapping his gloves in a random rhythm is a good way to do this. However when I'm tapping his gloves I'm ready to teep him should he charge in with punches.

    Hope this answers what you're asking.
  5. shirohagen is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 4:50am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kyuk Toogi N00bi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate

    If he's outside your range normally you'll try to circle off away from his strong (back) side. I like to tap the opponent's gloves quickly to judge distance, and break his timing, then teep him hard in the belly area. If I can't touch his gloves, I can't reach him.

    If he moves in, I'll teep him. A teep is a pushing kick you do with the ball of your feet. Mastering this one technique will help you frustrate many people.

    When the opponent is fresh, I tend to use the teep a lot, and focus on front leg kicks to his inside thigh (both orthodox) and jabs. I also like to counter off his low kicks. After he's panting a bit and not as focused do I go in for leg kicks and body kicks. Others may have different strategies.
    This was really useful to me, cheers.
    When circling off away from the strong side, which stance do you prefer? Instinctively I would put my strong side closest to him so I could, say, roundkick to the midsection. Is that what you do?

    In terms of teeping him, then hitting the leg kicks, in some of my competition rules low kicks aren't allowed, so what would you advise following in with? Do you think a 'half-assed jab' like kidspatula uses to fake, then a round or front kick to the waist/midsection would work?

    I am just settling into sparring enough to start being able to think more about what I am doing rather than just reacting on the spot out of instinct. My biggest problem is not throwing enough attacks and trying to do too much off the counter.
  6. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 9:05am


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You all pretty much understood what I was talking about. Thanks for the responses. Except PPlate, what I meant by outside is not outside the range, but more around the guard. As in, the opponent is not aligned with your guard and is striking you at an angle.

    I see how a clinch can more often than not occurs at that range, but would you initiate it as a defensive measure or as an offensive one? More precisely, would you seek to initiate the clinch because your opponent took the inside of your guard, or would you do it because you managed to get inside your opponent's guard? What about if you're fighting in a ruleset that does not allow clinching? Would that be a range at which both fighters feel inconfortable and move back?

    Also, what about getting inside the guard (not what to once you get there)? Any particular way you attempt to get there, or is it just not really part of your gameplan.

    Oh, and plumbing?!? Can I expect an explanation? I don't do Muay Thai or Boxing, you see.
    Last edited by Guizzy; 2/07/2007 9:07am at .
  7. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 10:13am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What about if you're fighting in a ruleset that does not allow clinching? Would that be a range at which both fighters feel inconfortable and move back?
    from what i've seen, the answer is "clinch anyway, the ref will separate us."
  8. maurice is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 12:53pm


     Style: Mo-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I clinch both defensively and offensively. If clinching is not allowed by the rules, the ref will separate you (common in most boxing matches). If your rule-set deducts points for clinching, either (1) get good at in-fighting, (2) move away laterally, or (3) wait for the other guy to move away and hit him really hard.

    Routinely moving straight back out of a clinch is a great way to get KTFO.
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 12:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are a striker:

    Inside or outside: adjust the distance, find a line, and strike. If you did it right, you won't be blasted back or otherwise thwarted in that effort. Repeat as necessary.


    Everything else is solved by practice with people who are reasonably competent in how to make you work for it.

    This isn't exactly brain surgery.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

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  10. Guizzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2007 1:34pm


     Style: Baihequan, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice
    I clinch both defensively and offensively. If clinching is not allowed by the rules, the ref will separate you (common in most boxing matches). If your rule-set deducts points for clinching, either (1) get good at in-fighting, (2) move away laterally, or (3) wait for the other guy to move away and hit him really hard.
    That's it! That's the boxing term, then; in-fighting! Now that answer doesn't tell much. Not everyone does boxing or trains in boxing terms, so some more details would be appreciated.
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