Technical Discussion in the CMA forum

[Torakaka]

While I mean no offense, I wont post them. It would be like me giving critique of (you said you studied?) thai boxing from the frame of reference of my own practice. Perhaps in what you do certain things done in certain ways that I wouldnt understand.

To further the point, i might argue that most kickboxers I have seen dont throw punches right. Am I correct? For boxers for that matter or, etc etc.

But youtube is public, rip em up

Well I didn't mean you, specifically. I'm just assuming that SOMEONE out there out of the 10,000+ members on bullshido looking at this forum has done this thing that is apparently so commonly known among CMA people. Of course, if you were to post about the technique, which you apparently know SOMETHING about, and someone disagreed with your ideas about it or whatever then I imagine they'd correct you. Same goes for if you were to critique, say, muay thai specific clinching strategies and were completely off base... someone like me would merely tell you how you were in error. There's really nothing to be afraid of. Being less informative than you'd like to be shouldn't scare you away from something.

[dwhomp]

HAHA! No, my post was in jest.

[Omar]

Tom already said kind of what I was going to say. But here goes....

A bunch of wierdo language is going to be inevitable and it's NO DIFFERENT from one of "us" wandering into a grappling thread. For some reason the MMA people just seem to be more of a bunch of whiners (sp?) in this respect. Every time I read a grappling thread for the first year or so here I was googling nearly every 3rd post and I STILL don't know WTF the Judo folks are talking about. Heck I couldn't have a throwing discussion around here at all if it wasn't for Judoinfo.com acting as my online translator.

Simple fact is, explaining things briefly won't help much either. Using English will add ZERO understanding. Here's the 5 basic fists from Xing Yi in English:

Splitting
Drilling
Smashing
Pounding
Crossing

It's like when I hear a Judo guy talk about an "outer reaping throw". I still need to google it.

Just in the spirit of good fun though I will give a brief description of each and btw, that old timey pic was not a pi quan, it was more of an on guard stance. It's where you throw a pi from and where you end up after one.

pi/splitting - a palm strike that kind of comes down and over the top. It's mostly characterized by the downward action at the end but also includes a zuan (to be explained later) hidden in the beggining part of the motion. Typical targets include the face, the top of the head, the forehead or the chest.

zuan/drilling - A closed fist but kind of pointy. Instead of hitting with the flat front part or the big knuckles you often hit with the the area kind of around the middle knuckle of the index finger but really just kind of that whole area. You can't hit anything hard with it because it's characteristice trait is "drilling" into the target and is generally a rising punch. It's sneaky and is good for "drilling" through very small opening where the spiral action shunts stuff off to the side. Typical targets include the ribs, kidneys, underneath the chin, behind the jaw or even under the chekbone.

beng/smashing - a sharp, sudden roughly horizontal punch with a verticle fist but also kind of pointy like the zuan as it's usually aimed at soft targets. It's characteristic quality is that it is sudden and explosive. It is the most similar to anything you'd see in boxing. It's generally a real powershot. Typical targets include the solar plexus, the ribs, the gut or the face.

Pao/pounding - The punching part is similar to beng in that it too is a sudden explosive punch with a verticle fist but the footwork is very different and the rear hand plays a much bigger defensive role. Zig Zag footwork. It includes weaving to the side to dodge the incoming punch and then closing in with a shot from the flank to the ribs or face. The rear arm has some really good "rolling" energy to help it deflect very powerfull shots like high rounds while simultaneously throwing the counter.

Heng/Crossing - I've actually rare seen this as a punch but more often as a kind of throw. The basic idea is to advance while steping behind the lead leg of the other person and "punching" forward across their front so they go down from the horizontal "shearing" energy.

These are all just typical examples of their uses and are really just a kind of entry level way to understand them. If you want good clips of them on youtube I recommend searching for "Black Taoist" or "Sifu Rudy". Those dudes tend to have very down to earth "fighter friendly" demonstrations that will look like stuff you already understand.

[dwhomp]

Well I didn't mean you, specifically. I'm just assuming that SOMEONE out there out of the 10,000+ members on bullshido looking at this forum has done this thing that is apparently so commonly known among CMA people. Of course, if you were to post about the technique, which you apparently know SOMETHING about, and someone disagreed with your ideas about it or whatever then I imagine they'd correct you. Same goes for if you were to critique, say, muay thai specific clinching strategies and were completely off base... someone like me would merely tell you how you were in error. There's really nothing to be afraid of. Being less informative than you'd like to be shouldn't scare you away from something.

Common umong Xing Yi folk, yes. Common across CMA? No.

"Being less informed....'

I am not sure I undersand your meaning. Meaning it would be valuable to discuss this with other XY folk? I do that.

Meaning that hearing about what other people that train other arts think about it? Doesnt seem relevant as it is out of context.

[DerAuslander]

Yeh but once again you all know what an uppercut is. I'd be surprised if anyone on this site didnt know what an uppercut was.

Hi, I do Olympic TKD.

What is this "punch" thing which you speak of?

[Tom Kagan]

HAHA! No, my post was in jest.

Uh ... did you get the impression ANY of my posts are not also in jest? Even when I'm being serious, I'm not usually all that serious about it. :smile:

[Omar]

Here you go. Sifu Rudy gives a pretty decent rundown of how they work together. He calls "pi quan" "chopping".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf2r5c_iNnY

[dwhomp]

Tom already said kind of what I was going to say. But here goes....

A bunch of wierdo language is going to be inevitable and it's NO DIFFERENT from one of "us" wandering into a grappling thread. For some reason the MMA people just seem to be more of a bunch of whiners (sp?) in this respect. Every time I read a grappling thread for the first year or so here I was googling nearly every 3rd post and I STILL don't know WTF the Judo folks are talking about. Heck I couldn't have a throwing discussion around here at all if it wasn't for Judoinfo.com acting as my online translator.

Simple fact is, explaining things briefly won't help much either. Using English will add ZERO understanding. Here's the 5 basic fists from Xing Yi in English:

Splitting
Drilling
Smashing
Pounding
Crossing

<SNIP>.

Better than I could do in text, I will shut up now

[dwhomp]

Uh ... did you get the impression ANY of my posts are not also in jest? Even when I'm being serious, I'm not usually all that serious about it. :smile:

Not at all! We coo....

[Anna Kovacs]

Hi, I do Olympic TKD.

What is this "punch" thing which you speak of?

Nothing you need to worry about, move about your business.