Tae Kwon Do..Changes?

**panthersix** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:11pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

Ahhhh. now I see. This isnt quite what I am talking about. I dont like prearranged sequences for SD. I feel that you are better served learning HOW to punch than WHEN to punch. For example...

If your attacker does this , you should do this.

Prearranged sequences lead to boring/dead compliant drills IMO. Your partner KNOWS what to expect and he reacts accordingly.

As far as the double post....dont worry about it.

Ahhh yes grasshopper, but you missed my post about the 2 on 1 sparring for the application of the techniques. Its almost "alive" as that's been defined here in Bullshido, but not quite. The two opponents are usually matched up based upon size and talent and the amount of "aliveness" the master wants to see in the match. My last 2 on 1 was against the two biggest guys in the dojang and they didn't cooperate, well they did some, because I was getting my ass kicked in front of the whole school and their combined families....geeesh.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:16pm

Hey panther...do you have any video of this type of sparring? Im not saying I dont believe you, I just want to see it for myself, so I can understand it better.

I am looking to change the curriculum (by hook or crook) at my school. Very soon there will be an opportune time to try and implement my plan. I want to be ready.

*edit* grasshopper lol

**Abe Frohman** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:17pm

Originally Posted by kwoww

TKD was always a sport martial art, and the SD application has always been secondary. After all, much of it is derived from Taekyon, which, like TKD, was, is, and always will be a sport.

Emphasis added to the part that doesn't make sense. TKD is derived from Krotty in all but name. Please don't tell me you buy into that 2000 year old history bullshit.

**oldman34** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:20pm

Originally Posted by Abe Frohman

Emphasis added to the part that doesn't make sense. TKD is derived from Krotty in all but name. Please don't tell me you buy into that 2000 year old history bullshit.

TKD has much of its roots in Shotokan from my understanding. Of course I havent finished reading the thread I mentioned in the 1st post either. Talk to kwoww over on that thread.

**biomed190** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:27pm

you must add grappling to your curriculum. 95 % of fights end on the ground. Therefore if you can't fight on the ground you can't fight. Every HKD class we have takedowns and subs mixed in with our sparring. The only way to spar realistically is to allow what would really happen in a fight. Maybe not allow huge slams but get your students comfortable enough if they get taken down they can pull guard and get themselves to a position where they can defend themselves.

**Abe Frohman** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:31pm

Originally Posted by kwoww

I learn Hapkido as well at my TKD school, though we don't do as much as you do, panthersix. We don't do takedowns with the kids at lower belts, but at BB level we do some highly effective self-defense techniques for if you're, say, being accosted at an ATM or entering your car (where any punk with a knife can just take your money/car and leave). In t3h str33t, TKD and Hapkido really aren't very useful, simply because of the style.

If these are the wrist grabs and disarms that are taught by many dojangs then you may be learning some dead bs. Are these taught in an alive manner where the attacker doesnt just stand there and let you do your moves?

**oldman34** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:31pm

Originally Posted by biomed190

you must add grappling to your curriculum. 95 % of fights end on the ground. Therefore if you can't fight on the ground you can't fight. Every HKD class we have takedowns and subs mixed in with our sparring. The only way to spar realistically is to allow what would really happen in a fight. Maybe not allow huge slams but get your students comfortable enough if they get taken down they can pull guard and get themselves to a position where they can defend themselves.

I agree 100% on this. However, I dont have the grappling experience to just "add it" to the curiculum. I can teach some sweeps/takedowns, and some basic ground defense, but as far as full blown grappling goes...not hardly.

I am more focusing on the things that already exist in TKD, to increase it SD viability.

**Abe Frohman** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:35pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

TKD has much of its roots in Shotokan from my understanding. Of course I havent finished reading the thread I mentioned in the 1st post either. Talk to kwoww over on that thread.

Some interesting reading from the Martial Arts History Project: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3897

Let me sum it up for those who don't like to read long threads:

Originally Posted by migsukaram arguing with an ATA noob in 2003

"Although its roots can be somewhat traced back to ancient Korea, it is a historic fact that Taekwondo as an organized art is relatively modern. In fact, the only documented history begins in the mid 1900's."

Wrong sir, TKD can not be traced back to ancient Korea at all. TKD is, was and always will be an off shoot of Okinwin Karate. Now you can trace TKD to ancient Okinawin arts, but that is it. There were arts indengenious to Korea, but, again, they were lost in time to due to two main factors: 1) Korea adopted Confucianism as the countries religion. This brought about the big down fall of Korean martial arts. People who practiced any type of fighting art were thought of as low life gangsters. Even the folk of taekkyon (which so many TKD poeple swear is the grandfather of TKD) was pretty much stopped. 2) Japanese occupation squashed most if not all documentation of any other Korean fighting systems that were still being practiced. Any art that was allowed to be practiced was Japanese. This is not theory, this is fact. Check out Korean history books.

Edit: Sorry about the thread derail, but things like this have to be pointed out if this forum is going to thrive and not become a haven for BS.

**biomed190** · Posted On: 2/05/2007 8:39pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

I agree 100% on this. However, I dont have the grappling experience to just "add it" to the curiculum. I can teach some sweeps/takedowns, and some basic ground defense, but as far as full blown grappling goes...not hardly.

I am more focusing on the things that already exist in TKD, to increase it SD viability.

Well I tell my students that low kicks have a higher percentage of landing in a real fight. I emphasize knees and elbows. Honestly though I tell my students to really think before they act. If they pull a knife and all you risk is losing property then give it up. You getting stabbed isn't worth it over a couple of bucks.