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  1. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 5:01pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas Drgon
    You listed other internal attributes:

    -posture
    -structure
    -body mechanics
    -breathing patterns
    He said those were "external"
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  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 5:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    rrrrrrggggggggggggggrhaaaaaaaa
    aAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR
    RRRRRRRRGHHHHHHH.


    Sorry he is off planet right now and can't help you.

    Please try again later.
  3. Tomas Drgon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 5:04pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    He said those were "external"
    oops, misread.
    Then forget what I wrote...

    Tomas
  4. Tomas Drgon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 5:18pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So here we go:

    -intent
    -presence
    -"heart"
    -"qi"
    -unity of purpose


    All vague terms.
    You cen even add more of vague terms. How about "root", "connectedness", "dialecticity", "frame", "operational charactristics", "subliminal perceptibility", "transcendental oneness", "planes of self conciosness"
    etc etc.

    It's easy.

    Tomas
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 6:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thomas, I don't practice or understand any of the things Omar listed as 'internal', but you seem to be making a tagential point:-

    Just because those things can't be measured objectively, does that automatically mean they can't be taught or that there is no value in discussing them ?

    If not, what's your point ?
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  6. Tomas Drgon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 7:00pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Thomas, I don't practice or understand any of the things Omar listed as 'internal', but you seem to be making a tagential point:-

    Just because those things can't be measured objectively, does that automatically mean they can't be taught or that there is no value in discussing them ?

    If not, what's your point ?
    It really is tangential. My point is that if you build your exercise regimen on something that can not be evaluated, you will never be able to confidently say that your regimen is better that any other regimen.

    This is what I really think: those things that Omar listed as "internal" CAN be measured. They can be measured by measuring the performance of the athlete that trained under that particular regimen. But to confidently measure the performance you need a venue and you need rules of engagement. Occasional skirmishes on boats on the Red River are not enough :). For some aspects of "internal" arts there is a venue, sport competition. Whether it's Shui Jiao, San Da, Judo, JJ, MMA, whatever. Bring out a stable of sport fighters that all trained silk reeling. I'm sure that when they start cleaning out the competitions, silk reeling will become a legitimate training method. Untill then it's just another idiocyncracy that may or may not work.

    My main point that is not tangential is that the internal/external dichotomy is artificial.

    Tomas
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 7:09pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas Drgon
    Bring out a stable of sport fighters that all trained silk reeling. I'm sure that when they start cleaning out the competitions, silk reeling will become a legitimate training method. Untill then it's just another idiocyncracy that may or may not work.
    1) By Omar's definition 'silk reeling' is external

    2) A stable of fighters trained in what you call 'internal' but omar would call 'external' exercises who cleaned up in San Shou/San Da has already occurred on at least two continents.

    My main point that is not tangential is that the internal/external dichotomy is artificial.

    Tomas
    Here I would agree.
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  8. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 7:36pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I chatted to my Tai Chi teacher today about the distinction between internal and external. He agreed that sports like boxing and other 'external' martial arts display internal characteristics (as per Kidspatula's post). I also spoke for a little while about the softness, calmness and exposive movements of grappling (you can't stay rigid for half an hour).
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  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 7:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas Drgon

    My main point that is not tangential is that the internal/external dichotomy is artificial.

    Tomas
    Yes. I agree.
  10. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 8:00pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    I chatted to my Tai Chi teacher today about the distinction between internal and external. He agreed that sports like boxing and other 'external' martial arts display internal characteristics (as per Kidspatula's post). I also spoke for a little while about the softness, calmness and exposive movements of grappling (you can't stay rigid for half an hour).
    Tbh, your Tai Chi instructor sounds like he things TCC is all about relaxation (i.e. not doing anything too explosive or strenuous). I'm glad you're enjoying it, but from what I've read, he's not teaching it martially. Take his opinions on martial arts with a grain of salt.
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