Originally Posted by EmetShamash
Don't know if he deleted his post himself of was deleted by mods but what Dale said was 100% correct. Shen and Xin are different things with different words. "Shen" can NOT be translated as "heart, mind, spirit". Of those 3 it can only be translated as "spirit". You are suffering from what is called a "language barrier" :angry2: Your Chinese friends either didn't understand the question or the context or just didn't enough to be precise enough for this context.
Originally Posted by EmetShamash
As to the translation you quoted above, like I said, the specifics on the inner 3 vary from school to school. This is not a translation issue. They are often different in the Chinese as well. They are alway abstract but specifics vary even in Chinese.
Again since Dale's post is gone now:
heart - xin
mind - yi
The words "heart" and "mind" are often both used to refer to "xin". That's what your Chinese friends were getting at about it not being neccesarily the physical organ that pumps blood BUT "shen" never means that. Also this is why "mind" is a really really bad translators choice in this context. It is vague as it could refer to either xin OR yi. A better choice for "yi" is "intention" or "intent". No room for confusion that way.
Originally Posted by Cullion
DO'H! I knew it! There really was a legit reason behind why I know WTF is Jin Choi firsthand.
The thing is: you can train the wrongest way possible and still get pretty exhausted.
Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
I remember doing splitting and drilling drills in hsing-i, up and down the gym for what 45 minutes. I'm not sure how usefull these were, I have really no way to find out.
In my flaky years I trained qigong with a chinese guy, we did 1 hr standing meditations.
It was interesting and all, but I'm not sure it was that useful.
I think the argument is not whether there is internal stylists that can fight, but rather whether internal training methods are optimal methods to get you there.
(I think I have posted this already somewhere, so I may be plagiarizing myself here...)
This is from my limited knowledge of sport physiology:
There is your "target activity": boxing, wrestling, basketball, whatever.
There is your "technical stereotype", one movement or a set of movements isolated from your target activity.
And there is your "dynamic stereotype" which is the learned ability of your brain to string together the various "technical stereotypes" into a thread of your target activity.
In some sports the technical stereotype is very close to the dynamic stereotype and the target activity. Shot put, dash, high jump, long jump for example. But with activities that involve interrogation of a complex terrain or an opponent the dynamic stereotype is way more complex than the technical stereotype.
My problem with "internal" training is that it tends to overtrain the "technical stereotype" while neglecting the "dynamic stereotype".
Originally Posted by Kidspatula
I absolutely agree with every point made by almost everyone who posted in that thread.
Internal arts are gay. It's not "the gayest gay sport there is", however. That honor is, as of yet, not been won by a CMA regardless of CMA's problems with martial silliness and gayness.
Is that why that thread was necromanced????
Last edited by Teh El Macho; 2/07/2007 11:22pm at .
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
The Internal / External dichotomy strikes me as the typical distinction about what the *other* guy is doing wrong. "Judo is no good, it's just brute strength."
The distinction most commonly trotted out is the one about using the hips. "____ is better because we use the power of the hips." (Insert name of your martial art in the blank.)
Note that in my rather lengthy rundown of how "internal" is actually defined not withing the context of BBS boards and google but rather within the context that the term was actually created and worked out inside China where the idea came from......
Originally Posted by meataxe
ANYTHING to do with the HIP is absolutely and completely explicitly EXTERNAL.
Once again folks:
EXTERNAL 3 Harmonies as outlined by Sun Lutang and a bazillion other famous dudes....
Hands - Feet
Elbows - Knees
HIPS - Shoulders
Those are all EXTERNAL details even within the context of various secret documents and transmissions from all the various grand poobilydahdah's of any of the various branches of Taiji, Xingyi or Bagua or any other so-called "internal" arts. Just like the other thread where someone (Kat or Anna?) was asking why you would want to aspire to be part of the shitty amateurish, "just for fun" MA crowd, why would you want to look to a bunch of pimplyfaced web-nerds who have never trained the stuff, never read the classics studied the history and are basically just saying, "This dude I don't know who has a web page said......" for your info on really esoteric aspects of CMA?
You have pretty much summed up the problems of the "internal" approach.
Originally Posted by Omar
The terms are either vague, not defined at all, or purely metaphorical and therefore making any rational discussion difficult.
Each self appointed grand master has his own terms and his own metaphors.
You may as well argue whether Jackson Pollock was a good painter or a bad painter.
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