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  1. Anjin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2012 11:32am


     Style: Xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have always been under the impression that the fajin term was something more common/emphasized in 'internal' or neijiaquan. I've trained it through horse stance training and pole shaking. There are tons of ways to train it, and different ways to express it but its all about marrying movement and breath I guess.
  2. Robinhood is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2012 8:38pm

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     Style: Chi Gung

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a new way to view, internal is the opposite of external , in " external" the muscles move and the movement involves the space outside the body, the muscles cause you to move around in the outside airspace.

    In " internal" the mind moves in the outside airspace and the movement is inside the body space with little movement in airspace.

    Cheers
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2012 12:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    I have a new way to view, internal is the opposite of external , in " external" the muscles move and the movement involves the space outside the body, the muscles cause you to move around in the outside airspace.

    In " internal" the mind moves in the outside airspace and the movement is inside the body space with little movement in airspace.

    Cheers
    This is gibberish.
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  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2012 1:32pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    This is gibberish.
    This is being nice.
  5. Tameshiwhaty? is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2012 3:35pm


     Style: Shotokan

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the most "External" MA Karate is very much about flow and speed a great example is Asai Sensei he was cross-trained in white crane kung fu but white crane is a large influence in karate. Hell Funakoshi was 4'9'' in a country that the average height was 5'5 not that big for a dude 4'9' Still a bit of a height things yeah I think you're right all arts have hard and soft parts in fact the goal in karate is to relax kime should only be less the a milla-secound.
  6. Anjin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2012 11:31am


     Style: Xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still a nub, so bear with me.

    I've been doing a little reading on the internet and books, and I feel like a lot of so called "IMA" styles have a lot of masters that were trained first in other disciplines and basic conditioning routines. Sun Lutang for example seems to have started off studying some form of "Shaolin" or "hard/external martial arts", same with Cheng Tinghua, Dong Haichuan, Li Luoneng, and a few others. I see a similar concept in the Tang Shou Tao system, which seemed to push basic conditioning and "basic" martial arts skill before pushing students into IMA concepts and practice.

    My question is, are there any examples of the reverse? Noted martial artists studying XY/BGZ/TCC and then moving toward excellence in "external" martial arts?
  7. Big Klutz is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2014 10:47pm


     Style: Old School MMA

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been training in "internal" MAs for about 16 years now, so if anyone ever checks out this dormant thread and would like to discuss what the hell it is, I'd be happy to throw in my 2 pennies' worth. So far, no one here has touched on the truth, which is no surprise since this kind of training has been buried in secrecy and elitism for, probably, a thousand years.

    In a nutshell, though, it is a very specific way of using the body to generate unusual, concussive power, structural stability, and the ability to manipulate and control the opponent's center of mass and structure. It's fundamentally different in its approach than conventional "external" methods or athleticism as most of us know it.

    I came from an "external" background of TKD, karate, and kungfu, and when I started training in "internal" stuff, I had to completely let go of the way I was accustomed to moving and carrying myself. It's that different, but it is VERY tangible, no woo-woo stuff (except from people who have little or no skill but want the mysticism that...actually... is NOT a part of the training), and can be taught very directly. The concepts and principles are not themselves an art, but a body method that will serve as the power source of any martial art. You learn the methods for creating internal power and connectivity, then you use it to drive your techniques in any art. Taiqi, Xingyi, Bagua, and some Japanese arts use it in different ways and to different degrees. (Note: there are lots of schools in these arts that have lost the internal skills.. Caveat emptor.) But you could use it to enhance any system.

    Don't get me wrong, it's not an easy ride. It's sophisticated stuff and very hard work to learn, which is another reason why it's a rare animal. You can't instantly pick it up and put it in your BJJ or MMA. But it is a real and systematic kind of training and conditioning, and once you have it, it will make those fighting arts even more effective than they already are.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2014 10:50pm

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     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many of the people in this thread have trained just as long and longer than you. What you meant to say was you don't agree with what we said and have your own opinions.

    In a nutshell, though, it is a very specific way of using the body to generate unusual, concussive power, structural stability, and the ability to manipulate and control the opponent's center of mass and structure. It's fundamentally different in its approach than conventional "external" methods or athleticism as most of us know it.
    This has been said in this thread and others.
  9. Big Klutz is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2014 10:59pm


     Style: Old School MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Many of the people in this thread have trained just as long and longer than you. What you meant to say was you don't agree with what we said and have your own opinions.
    .
    I suppose you could say it that way. But it was 14 pages of stuff and I've been reading it for a couple of days. A person can get dazed... Didn't mean to offend. But when I don't see any specific discussion about what the body and mind are actually doing that is different between "external" and "internal" method, it seemed kind of strange. Why not just compare the actual, physical differences between the two body methods? That would be the most direct way of comparing and contrasting them, since they are so totally different.

    I've been training in MAs overall for 40 years, so the contrast of training "internal" for the past 16 is all the greater to me.
    Last edited by Big Klutz; 2/22/2014 11:03pm at .
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2014 11:36pm

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     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klutz View Post
    I suppose you could say it that way. But it was 14 pages of stuff and I've been reading it for a couple of days. A person can get dazed... Didn't mean to offend.
    You'll know when I am offended, this is not that time. Your post is actually very typical and common. Some will agree others, as stated earlier, will point out the a false dichotomy.

    But when I don't see any specific discussion about what the body and mind are actually doing that is different between "external" and "internal" method, it seemed kind of strange.
    This is why I said your opinion is different not wrong. We had a former poster, with a legitimate background in internal and external styles, who would disagree with a couple of your comments.

    Why not just compare the actual, physical differences between the two body methods? That would be the most direct way of comparing and contrasting them, since they are so totally different.
    As I mentioned, multiple other threads exist. you decided to bump the newest one. Also, people will and won't agree it is "so different."

    I've been training in MAs overall for 40 years, so the contrast of training "internal" for the past 16 is all the greater to me.
    Yes and there are people equal and less who will disagree. Your amount of training is just adding a different perspective.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 2/24/2014 12:32am at .
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