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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2010 2:20pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gotcha. Yep that's my response as well.
  2. Homernoid is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2010 3:06pm


     Style: Taijiquan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Stone View Post
    My error...

    What I meant to say was that the internal folks attempt to create an unnecessary and erroneous elitism. I've heard that pejorative - "you're doing it externally" - more than once.

    Let me hit you, Mr. Internal-Elitist-Kid. You tell me whether it's "internal" or "external" once you pick your lungs up off the floor and start breathing again...

    that is, why I enjoyed the explanaition I mentioned above (internal means from china, external means imported to china from outside). imo such an approach may overcome internal-mastrubation-elitism quite sufficient, the other way to deal with it I see is that picking up some lungs Matt Stone mentioned.

    my 2 cent
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2010 4:36pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by technonaut View Post
    You know, that is probably as valid an answer as any!

    To offer my two cents, consider the difference between TKD and Bagua. TKD gets you out there right away flopping arms and legs around in the air, and slowly works on improving your form. In contrast, Bagua starts with learning to sit right, then stand right, and then as you develop good form the external things are developed. That's how I'd see it anyway.
    This is the eltism that we are talking about.
  4. TenTigers is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2010 2:49am


     Style: Hung Kuen, Jook Lum SPM

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Internal" is a term used by Martial Arts snobs with a holier than thou attitude. You know the ones, they think their fecal matter is pleasantly scented.
    When you ask them to nail down the definitions of internal, they say relaxation, structural alignment, correct breathing and intent. Basically, what ALL Martial Arts possess, when practiced correctly.
    The phrase was first used in an article either by, or about Sun Lu-Tang, who was credited with creating the term. The "Internalists" picked up on the phrase, and have been running with it ever since.
  5. SharinganUser is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2010 8:17am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate, Tai Chi, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I play internal basketball at the Y sometimes, it's so much more awesome than that external style they play in the parking lot near the school.
  6. TenTigers is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2010 11:25am


     Style: Hung Kuen, Jook Lum SPM

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bang! View Post
    The internal/external dichotomy was manufactured by Sun Lu Tang (Sun Style Taijiquan founder) to differentiate what he was doing from some of the other kids out there. Many people view it as an unnecessary and artificial distinction. Why? Because we’re all going to wind up in the same place, provided that we aren’t doing anything seriously wrong.

    I also see IMA as being more anal about relatively subtle biomechanics and EMA as placing more emphasis on making techniques stick. After some years, a good IMA guy will still be able to hit hard and a good EMA guy will be able to flow. By that time, the distinction has vanished. It exists only insofar as the initial direction of their training.

    .
    ah, missed this. So, yeah. What he said...
  7. technonaut is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/14/2010 7:01pm


     Style: Ranger Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Well said :)

    Quote Originally Posted by SharinganUser View Post
    I play internal basketball at the Y sometimes, it's so much more awesome than that external style they play in the parking lot near the school.
    ROFL Now that's what I'm talking about :)
  8. socratic is offline

    How do elenchus?

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    Posted On:
    1/19/2010 6:21pm


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only real difference I was ever told between internal and external styles (aside from the fact that Mr Sun, who came up with the whole dichotomy, liked the three he decided were 'internal' and didn't like the others) is that internal styles don't condition by hitting objects, preferring calisthenics. That said I don't think this is entirely true in practice.

    I should clarify that I don't really think there's much of a significant dichotomy, it's just the above is what my old IMA teachers told me.
    Last edited by socratic; 1/19/2010 6:35pm at .
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  9. Sushi-Boy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2010 6:18am


     Style: Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wanted to share a memorable conversation I had many years ago with an Aikido stylist on what HE thought "Internal" Martial Arts meant.

    He considered Judo external because the throws were obvious to all in their manner of technique and Aikido was internal because the subtle movements could not be perceived by the layman.

    The reason it stuck in my memory was his further explanation when I obviously looked a tad confused.

    "External is like a Man, agressive and direct. Internal is like a Woman, subtle and circular"

    I then made a gesture with my left hand's thumb and forefinger representing a circle and my other index finger going into it in that "sex" way and said "like this?"

    He laughed but said that I was actually on to something when I was just making a joke.
  10. tangshou is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2012 7:57am


     Style: Gongfu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My apologies for breaking out this crusty old thread that you all wish were only a distant memory.

    I'd like to propose a definition of internal arts that I've never heard before. Internal arts are those which strictly follow certain rules of motion. I'm not going to go into what those are here but let's say they "cultivate the proper flow of qi." No I'm not going to try to define what that means. Now as I think we can all agree most 'external' styles will follow these same rules of motion. The difference is that pure internal styles (taiji, bagua, xingyi) and their derivatives never violate these rules. Whereas external styles allow for any movement, but follow the internal rules in most cases.

    Another way to say this might be that internal styles move according to rules which maximize some goal (qi flow, natural motion, woo, etc.) and aim to be effective as a martial art given that restriction. External arts tend to use the same rules as internal arts, but will prioritize kicking ass over following rules of movement. One could then potentially measure a degree to which a style is internal vs. external by how often they violate the internal principles.

    I'm not saying I believe this; I don't have nearly enough experience to know if it's true. It's just an idea that's been floating in my head for a while. Thoughts?
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