...But...But...But...it doesn't look like kung fu

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/25/2009 1:33pm

Okay, this was birthed because of the Tai Chi thread. Yes, I'm looking for the entire documentary but, this little bit will be enough to make my case.

Yes, there are forms in YiQuan:
YouTube - Yiquan master Yao Chengguang in Moscow

Yes there is qi and medatative focusing:
YouTube - Yiquan from Warriors of China Movie. Empty Mind Films

This is not the entirety of the art. It boils down to what you do with it in a live manner. No, the sparring doesn't look exactly like what is done WITHOUT an opponent. Forms are forms they do not transfer move by move by move into a sparring match, competition or a fight.

People need to divorce themselves of this notion when they argue.

No, I'm not advocating forms. I enjoy forms as a function a part of the whole. I understand people see them as unnecessary and I completely understand that argument. I think, in the proper context, they are necessary.

YouTube - Yi Quan Martial Arts Documentary Trailer : China

Still, if anything can go forms are first IMO if, you are learning Self Defense and fighting.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/26/2009 5:02pm

Baji Quan:

Same as above:

Froms:
YouTube - bajiquan

Qi:

YouTube - Adam Hsu (å¾ç´€) - Bajiquan (å…«æ¥µæ‹³) - Power Issuing

Applications:
YouTube - Baji contest in Cangzhou 1988

YouTube - Fear the Baji

Funny note:
Look at the sweeps in both videos close to 15 years later!!!

**1point2** · Posted On: 3/26/2009 9:11pm

Love the shoulder at 1:17 in the 4th video.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 11:39am

Forms:
YouTube - Xing Yi Quan ( Hsing-I, æ²³åŒ—å½¢æ„æ‹³ ) 5 Elements and Linking form

Qi:
YouTube - Xing Yi Quan: SAN TI SHI

YouTube - Taiwan Tang Shou Dao

applications:
Please pay attention to the form the Sifu is playing. Again, it is not move by move by move like the form. Yet, there are very specific kicks and blocks used in the tournaments.

**Hooded Justice** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 12:18pm

Personally I always thought that vid of the 1988 Baji contest was a great example of looking like kung fu. The sweeps and especially that first throw. Beautiful, I'll always love that vid.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 12:29pm

I agree but, there in lies the rub. The sweeps and throws are awesome and look flamboyant. Then again a ton of other stuff in that video looks like normal "boring," "sloppy," regular" fighting.

That's the bias and the problem. You have it yourself and I had it also. If it doesn't stand out and grab your attention it isn't kung fu. If ti isn't flamboyant full of low stances it isn't Kung fu.

No, I'm not saying you are that bad.

That shoulder strike Asia throws is awesome regardless of size. He even uses palm strikes and the classic kung fu sideways stance everybody hates. Yet, the rest of it looks like "regular" fighting.

**Hooded Justice** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 1:03pm

I am sadly a by product of too much tv and movies growing up as I am sure most people are to one degree or another when it comes to what CMA should look like. I'm actually getting to check out a CMA school on monday so hopefully I'll get a good dose of reality on the CMA subject.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 1:10pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Baji Quan:

Applications:
YouTube - Baji contest in Cangzhou 1988[/INDENT]

I want to see someone do that take down from ~11 seconds into this video in a non kung fu competition some time. It's flashy as hell.

**1point2** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 1:14pm

Originally Posted by KidSpatula

I want to see someone do that take down from ~11 seconds into this video in a non kung fu competition some time. It's flashy as hell.

If you mean the one at 0:13 in the windy 1988 clip...uhh...either you or a certain lady-friend of yours specifically mentioned doing a non-flashy version of it in a MT match. This was a while back.

I'll go hunting for it.

PS. This is exactly what IIF means. Kung fu is thought to be the low-percentage stuff, but if practiced correctly it's just techniques used all over.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/27/2009 1:28pm

Originally Posted by Hooded Justice

I am sadly a by product of too much tv and movies growing up as I am sure most people are to one degree or another when it comes to what CMA should look like. I'm actually getting to check out a CMA school on monday so hopefully I'll get a good dose of reality on the CMA subject.

So am I. That's why I said had. I can't fault anyone for that bias because, that's how it was marketed.

I want to see someone do that take down from ~11 seconds into this video in a non kung fu competition some time. It's flashy as hell.

So, would I.

Kung fu is thought to be the low-percentage stuff, but if practiced correctly it's just techniques used all over.

Close but this is how I would word it.

Most techniques (striking/throwing only obviously) cross at some point into other disciplines. Don't use your misconceptions to make a general statement about a particular style.

Some disciplines teach things better. Yep, sorry kung fu is just above the booj in terms of perception.

I'm not going to be drawn into a "style x" is better than "style y" as, my recommendations are all over the website. Many are not for CMA in general and we will leave that for another thread.

It is just the "well Tai Chi should only be done for performance and money grubbers" comment that irritated me. I actually agree, a ton of kung fu instructors shouldn't claim they teach Self defense and Tai Chi and _ing _un are at the top of that list IMO.