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  1. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:12pm

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     Style: Improv comedy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wataboxa
    I wanted to explore the reverse of your post.

    But being as though you brought it up. What changes in stance would the boxer have to adapt to?

    Are you implying that a Mike Tyson, Muhammed Ali or Roy Jones in their prime would get owned by an average MMA fighter?

    I'll concede the idea of take downs, Knees etc being a major change for the boxer. However, smaller gloves would equal more Knock outs for the Boxer.
    Boxers don't have to worry about someone shooting in to them at knee height.

    With out any training to deal with that type of attack, even enough just to get aware of it, I think an average MMA fighter would know not to stay standing up and would have a decent enough shoot to take them down.

    So now to answer your first part, if you're a striker and want to keep it standing, you have to adapt a wider stance so you can effectively sprawl and stuff the take down so you can pound them in the face.

    Also smaller gloves = more knock outs, and more flash knock downs. Punches (jabs and such) that don't have that type of effect with 14 ounce gloves become more dangerous with 4 ounce gloves, so that a boxer who is used to exchanging blows to land his knock out punch has to be more worried of a stiff jab with a 4 ounce gloves knocking / stunning them momentarily.

    So add in the increased risk of a flash knock down, and take downs and a bgoxer has a lot more to worry about.

    Also we haven't even mentioned leg kicks. They hurt like a bitch and if you get caught by one while you're putting your weight on that leg it can take you right our of a fight.

    So now the boxer, has to have a wider stance, be leaning back a bit mroe so they can check the leg kick, worry about a shoot and not get caught with a stiff jab.

    There's a reason an elite MMA striker looks like Chuck Liddel and not Roy Jones, and if Roy or Tyson were to fight MMA they would have to adapt to be effective.

    Also the reverse is true, if an MMA striker like liddel fought a pure boxing match the way he fights MMA he would probably be KTFO by a mediocre boxer.
  2. Wataboxa is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:12pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by debul937
    I base this on personal experience. I train at a place where MMA fighters train and at a boxing gym. When we do straight boxing at the MMA gym I hardly ever get hit and usually always win. At the boxing gym, however, when I spar with good amateur boxers, I don't fair nearly as well. On the occasions I have sparred with professional boxers I've been raped. It's just a different level of striking, not to mention a different kind of striking, than what you normally see in MMA fights.

    I don't argue with guys who train. So, I will take your word for it. But I have read in this thread that MMA striking is different. How so? I pointed out in another post that, I see MMA fighters using traditional boxing stances and punches.
  3. Wataboxa is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:14pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abusivemelon
    Yes MMA > Boxing. Due to Kicks and grappling. Theres a video somewhere of Muay Thai owning boxing just with leg kicks. Now add grappling and a professional all round fighter and boxing is severely handicapped.
    So, is this every instance of MT vs. Boxing?
  4. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:15pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    Also the reverse is true, if an MMA striker like liddel fought a pure boxing match the way he fights MMA he would probably be KTFO by a mediocre boxer.
    See mighty moe being schooled by some no-name journeyman.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  5. Backdraft is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:15pm


     Style: Shootfighting

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    Read the post above yours, dude.
  6. Wataboxa is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:17pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft
    They are called strikers because they prefer to... strike. As in, hit something.

    Now, my two cents: Professional MMA fighters have to be skilled in all ranges of fighting, and thus, their training schedule reflects that, with the side effect that it is very difficult to focus on one particular thing. Thus, a good MMA fighter, would probably lose to a good boxer, UNDER BOXING RULES. Were the table turned, and a boxer had to fight a MMA fighter under MMA rules, I have little doubt that any damn fighter with half a brain would rather try to focus on the boxers weak sides (kicks and grappling) rather than try to outbox a boxer.
    Agreed! Again I have only viewed a handful of fights. So, I am not speaking as if I have seen MMA fights on a regular basis. What I have seen when I watched is, the fighter with better hands usually wins.

    Are you guys seeing this or have I just not seen enough fights?
  7. Wataboxa is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:20pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    Boxers don't have to worry about someone shooting in to them at knee height.

    With out any training to deal with that type of attack, even enough just to get aware of it, I think an average MMA fighter would know not to stay standing up and would have a decent enough shoot to take them down.

    So now to answer your first part, if you're a striker and want to keep it standing, you have to adapt a wider stance so you can effectively sprawl and stuff the take down so you can pound them in the face.

    Also smaller gloves = more knock outs, and more flash knock downs. Punches (jabs and such) that don't have that type of effect with 14 ounce gloves become more dangerous with 4 ounce gloves, so that a boxer who is used to exchanging blows to land his knock out punch has to be more worried of a stiff jab with a 4 ounce gloves knocking / stunning them momentarily.

    So add in the increased risk of a flash knock down, and take downs and a bgoxer has a lot more to worry about.

    Also we haven't even mentioned leg kicks. They hurt like a bitch and if you get caught by one while you're putting your weight on that leg it can take you right our of a fight.

    So now the boxer, has to have a wider stance, be leaning back a bit mroe so they can check the leg kick, worry about a shoot and not get caught with a stiff jab.

    There's a reason an elite MMA striker looks like Chuck Liddel and not Roy Jones, and if Roy or Tyson were to fight MMA they would have to adapt to be effective.

    Also the reverse is true, if an MMA striker like liddel fought a pure boxing match the way he fights MMA he would probably be KTFO by a mediocre boxer.
    No disagreements here. Good points!
  8. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wataboxa
    Agreed! Again I have only viewed a handful of fights. So, I am not speaking as if I have seen MMA fights on a regular basis. What I have seen when I watched is, the fighter with better hands usually wins.

    Are you guys seeing this or have I just not seen enough fights?

    Only strikers with good enough take down defense are winning

    IE Lideel has been wrestling since he was 14 years old, his take down defense and abilty to get back up against wrestlers like Couture means that he can let the leather fly with out worry of ground and pound or being submited.
  9. Wataboxa is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:22pm


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    Only strikers with good enough take down defense are winning

    IE Lideel has been wrestling since he was 14 years old, his take down defense and abilty to get back up against wrestlers like Couture means that he can let the leather fly with out worry of ground and pound or being submited.

    Interesting. I am learning a bit here.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 12:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wataboxa
    So, is this every instance of MT vs. Boxing?
    depending on the rules of the fight.
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