JUDO vs BJJ

[Gezere]

>From reading this site for a week or two I have to say that most traditional martial artists are not overly concerned with street fighting. Funakoshi's shame was that he hit a mugger, after a lifetime of saying the essense of karate was defense. As a master he of course knew that he could have controlled the situation and refrained from striking. I get the feeling that some of the posters must hang around dark alleys alot.

Actually most diehard TMA guys I know have always been focused on real situations. The Martial Hobbyist focus more on sport.

BTW Funakoshi is really a bad example when talking about controling situations as a master (Ueshiba also) Funakoshi was NOT the nice sweet guy pple think he was. Matter of fact before the war he veiwed karate as 'a way to bring order to the barbarians'(obviously his veiw changed)

John Paul,

You are very correct in you post except for one minor thing. Kano wanted to change Jujutsu because a good part of the old Jujutsu waza was not practiced sufficiently because of the risk involved. MMA like to say they don't like the "too dangerous" excuse but when it comes to koryu jujutsu this is the case. There are serval waza you just cannot practice suffiecently only on a training partner. If you substitute and inanimate object you lose the "feel" of it. When kano started teaching his Judo (as refered to as Kano Jujutsu) he had many good Jujutsuka to work with.

>All the BJJ techniques can be found in old Judo. All the aiki-style and the what not are no longer taught in Judo or BJJ

You are correct and this feeds in to my theory of unarmed fighting arts going in a cycle (reinventing the wheel as you will) Many pple thing BJJ and MMA are always coming up with something new but it or something similar has been done. I like to collect old books on fighting. Last week I received an old Jujutsu/Judo book written in 1944 by an American (it is kind of a funny read. WWII was going on against the Japanese. While the writer was trying to enlighten pple on the greatness of the Japanese fighting system his patriotic pride made him interject his "JAP" bashing) in the book it describes the GAURD postition pretty well. Here is a small exert:

"Being on the bottom can be turned into an advantage if you work your arms and legs into the proper places for counterattack."

The illustration that accompanies this pictures a guy who has just been thrown to the ground and then pulls the guy into his guard. Two mor sections in the book even deals with the proper placement of this postion.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

[patfromlogan]

Asia - I guess what I mean to say is that tma's focus hard on the best destructive techniques, best controlling techniques and so forth. That said, fighting skills, meaning street self defense skills though being taught in a very vigorous and often painful manner, are on the other hand waved off in a way by people like old high ranking Japanese teachers. Kind of like Bruce Lee quit being a street fighter when he found out the good guys where in the gym. Or maybe the atitude is that we are proficient, practicing high level skills for years, and a straight kick or leg sweep take down are all anyone would need in the street. pat

[patfromlogan]

oh, another question, do you know and links or sources of info that are good on Okinawan Te, or Funakashi. I'll hit dogpile search. Found a twenty page history of chung do kwan on line that taught me a lot about Lee, Choi, prejudice against Japanese influencing TKD and so forth.