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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 8:15pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    did I earn the medal?

    Nope not about me I never earn that **** cause I suck and stuff
    but it does bring up an interesting debate to be had here.
    http://thebjjmentalcoach.com/blog/th...arn-the-medal/


    On April 11th, 2015 I competed in the Black Belt/Adult/Light weight division at the IBJJF Rome International Open in Rome, Italy. The division included six athletes, seasoned competitors and young new talents as well. For the first time in my career I encountered a new experience, I had one match, lost and took third place.
    The author goes on to explain why he feels that he indeed did earn the medal.

    However even after reading why I can say I agree with parts of it but over all I still wouldn't feel like I actually earned a medal in that sort of case.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
  2. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 8:38pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Nope not about me I never earn that **** cause I suck and stuff
    but it does bring up an interesting debate to be had here.
    http://thebjjmentalcoach.com/blog/th...arn-the-medal/




    The author goes on to explain why he feels that he indeed did earn the medal.

    However even after reading why I can say I agree with parts of it but over all I still wouldn't feel like I actually earned a medal in that sort of case.
    I tell my students if they showed up to compete, they earned the medal. It' s not the same as beating people in matches, though.

    I am a bit confused, though, he said six competitors, he lost and was out, so if it was single elimination (apparently) so how did he get third, even with two third places (what we would call in Judo a repachage type bracket) ?

    It could not have been a double elimination system, he would have had to lose twice to be out.

    Maybe some sort of point system, depending on how you lose ? then the places are by points, not actual wins...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. ghost55 is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:07pm


     Style: MMA

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    I have an IBJJF bronze medal of shame from getting armbar'd in 30sec. I don't feel like I earned ****. I feel like the IBJJF should introduce a rule that says you need to win at least one match to get a medal. Also they should stop awarding two bronze medals per division and just have the two people fight for it.
  4. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:13pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    I have an IBJJF bronze medal of shame from getting armbar'd in 30sec. I don't feel like I earned ****. I feel like the IBJJF should introduce a rule that says you need to win at least one match to get a medal. Also they should stop awarding two bronze medals per division and just have the two people fight for it.
    You showed up, where were the rest of the fucking pussies that didn't compete ?

    No, it's not the same as winning a match, I agree. But it's worth something.

    They just need to change their elimination system. For development type tournaments, true double elimination is good. Everybody fights everybody, you have to lose 2x to be out. I bet the they are more interested in minimizing time and expense rather than that, though.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I am a bit confused, though, he said six competitors, he lost and was out, so if it was single elimination (apparently) so how did he get third, even with two third places (what we would call in Judo a repachage type bracket) ?
    It is single elimination, its not by points in the sense of what he did during the match.
    I am still trying to puzzle it out but it comes down to some sort of math to do with losing to the silver medalist. How this is any better than losing to the guy who eventually won the whole thing I have no idea.
    Maybe it played out this way
    --him-----------------------------------------------Gets Bronze
    --silver----Silver advances---silver advances---Gets Silver

    --sod2------Sod2 advances---loses to silver----Gets other Bronze
    --sod3---------------------------------------------Gets nothing

    --gold------Gold Advances--by round -------- Gold wins
    --sod1--------------------------------------------Gets nothing

    Some other organisations will just do a round robin when the brackets are that small. This to me is the best format for small groups. You lay out your cash and only get to compete once is bullshit anyways.

    I am still on the fence about being proud of the medal. Its like a participation trophy nice to have and all but not the same thing as a real bronze medal that is earned by being close to the top of the heat.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
  6. kanegs is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:25pm

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     Style: Se-Jong TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I am a bit confused, though, he said six competitors, he lost and was out, so if it was single elimination (apparently) so how did he get third, even with two third places (what we would call in Judo a repachage type bracket) ?
    With a 6 man single elimination. Two participants get a bye for the first round. Think of it as the 1st and 2nd seeds win against the imaginary 7th and 8th seeds and go straight to the second round.
  7. ghost55 is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:27pm


     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not doing an IBJJF comp again. $115 for what could possibly be a single match is too much. Also, the event was pure chaos.
  8. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 9:35pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    It is single elimination, its not by points in the sense of what he did during the match.
    I am still trying to puzzle it out but it comes down to some sort of math to do with losing to the silver medalist. How this is any better than losing to the guy who eventually won the whole thing I have no idea.
    Maybe it played out this way
    --him-----------------------------------------------Gets Bronze
    --silver----Silver advances---silver advances---Gets Silver

    --sod2------Sod2 advances---loses to silver----Gets other Bronze
    --sod3---------------------------------------------Gets nothing

    --gold------Gold Advances--by round -------- Gold wins
    --sod1--------------------------------------------Gets nothing

    Some other organisations will just do a round robin when the brackets are that small. This to me is the best format for small groups. You lay out your cash and only get to compete once is bullshit anyways.

    I am still on the fence about being proud of the medal. Its like a participation trophy nice to have and all but not the same thing as a real bronze medal that is earned by being close to the top of the heat.
    Yeah, I meant round robin when I wrote true double elimination. Brain fart...

    Right, bullshit, but saves them time on their rental/lease fees. Running true double or even a 6 man round robin burns a lot of human resources (refs, timer/scorekeepers, etc.) They are a for-profit business, not a state or provincial org. trying to provide development opportunities for their members.

    Pride might be too strong a word. A sense of satisfaction that you showed up when others who could have showed up pussied out. And I guarantee, a LOT of people ***** out.

    No offense to meant to female genitalia...
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 10:48pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    A sense of satisfaction that you showed up when others who could have showed up pussied out. And I guarantee, a LOT of people ***** out.
    So you buy yourself a tournament T-Shirt and wear it with pride.
    That is your reward for showing up. Yes you should have a certain amount of even pride for showing up.
    However winning an "award" for essentially showing up doesn't sit well with me especially when others really do have to do something to earn that reward. It cheapens their accomplishments and in many ways it cheapens your own reward for when you really do beat people to medal.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2015 10:58pm

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     Style: BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Right, bullshit, but saves them time on their rental/lease fees. Running true double or even a 6 man round robin burns a lot of human resources (refs, timer/scorekeepers, etc.) They are a for-profit business, not a state or provincial org. trying to provide development opportunities for their members.
    A lot of those resources are already in place for the day. They have already rented the place out, already staffed it, it they have the time and staff they should do the round robin format in a light bracket. A part of being a for profit organisation is making sure your customers are happy so that they come back to other events.
    Take for example Good Fight(a great rule set btw)
    A little more customer friendly
    examples
    Note #1: If you do not make weight we bump you up to the next weight class. You do not have to worry about being disqualified for not making weight. We won't disqualify you for this. We just bump you up a weight.

    Note #2: If you signed up for the wrong weight class; you do not have to call or email to have it changed. We can do this simply and easily for you, after you weigh-in, at the tournament.

    Note what they do for the ladies as they run into bracketing issues

    **Ladies**
    Sometimes we do not have enough ladies to form brackets so we do a round robin with all the ladies together and each match is 8 minutes long. Winner will be decided by the most amount of submissions at the end. This system has proven successful and very exciting in past years and is really cool because each lady gets to compete several times. Just want all the ladies to keep in mind that we might have to do this if we don’t have enough brackets.

    Rules will abide by the lowest belt level in the match. For example Women's White/Blue Belt Matches will abide by White Belt Rules. Purple/Brown/Black Belt Matches will abide by Purple Belt Rules.

    They also have a WILD CARD RULE
    Brackets that either start with 3 competitors or end up with 3 competitors will have a wild card competitor added to the bracket.

    If a bracket starts with 3 competitors, a 4th competitor will be brought in from a lower weight division within the same belt division.

    If a bracket ends up with 3 competitors from within the same bracket that did not advance, as a result of a tie will participate in a wild card lottery. Competitors who lost by submission will not be eligible for the wild card lottery.


    All rules can be found here
    http://www.goodfighttournament.com/rules.html
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
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