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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 1:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    By the way, Is It Fake is co-modding this bad-boy and he's not as nice as I am.

    Then it is probably a good idea I am not a moderator of this forum. I'd be banning everyone... including myself. :smile:


    Still, use of the iron palm in moderation of this forum is both ironic and appropriate, IMO.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 1:54pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is It Fake?, yea sorry I misused the word. How do the city kids say it, o, "my bad homes"

    What I meant to say is that training in San Da, or using San Da training in your art, is the way to do it. So if you do Eagle Claw Kung Fu, practice your forms and techniques. Thats cool. But then take apart those techniques and start using the strikes on some bags. Any sweeps you use, isolate them and work it on a partner. Then when you have a whole bunch of techniques that you can ue on a partner in sparring (the San Da part), spar. Work on those techniques.

    Does that make sense? I know San Da isnt the art, its more the training style, so I think if all Kung Fu schools used San Da as part of its training ( a big part) I would respect them more. It doesnt have to be all sparring, just use it frequently.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 2:07pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Is It Fake?, yea sorry I misused the word. How do the city kids say it, o, "my bad homes"

    What I meant to say is that training in San Da, or using San Da training in your art, is the way to do it. So if you do Eagle Claw Kung Fu, practice your forms and techniques. Thats cool. But then take apart those techniques and start using the strikes on some bags. Any sweeps you use, isolate them and work it on a partner. Then when you have a whole bunch of techniques that you can ue on a partner in sparring (the San Da part), spar. Work on those techniques.

    Does that make sense? I know San Da isnt the art, its more the training style, so I think if all Kung Fu schools used San Da as part of its training ( a big part) I would respect them more. It doesnt have to be all sparring, just use it frequently.
    Yep. I see what you mean. I agree with this whole-heartedly.

    That's what we did early in my Kung Fu training for years. Hell we would have days where we took a form apart, worked the techniques, and sparred for an entire class.

    Loved those days.

    That's what I did when I was running my school.
  4. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 3:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What would the pro-kungfu guys of this forum interpret as the reason behind kungfu's dismal performance in MMA and its continued failure to put forward a viable competitor to modern MMA?
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 3:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    What would the pro-kungfu guys of this forum interpret as the reason behind kungfu's dismal performance in MMA and its continued failure to put forward a viable competitor to modern MMA?
    Small proportion of schools practicing hard sparring. Those that do, and which compete, focus on San Da/San Shou/Lei Tai/Shuai Chiao competition. Not much groundwork, if any, taught in most CMA styles I've come across.
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  6. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 3:24pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Virus, this is a valid question that should be dealt with ONCE in an appropriate thread. If you keep shitting up this one, I'm going to hit you with the iron palm.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    What would the pro-kungfu guys of this forum interpret as the reason behind kungfu's dismal performance in MMA and its continued failure to put forward a viable competitor to modern MMA?

    I blame:

    - the Chinese Government's historical policies towards MA in pushing Tai Chi as a health practice and Wu Shu as cultural expression and essentially marginalizing traditional fighting arts by discriminatory subsidies... and prosecution. This caused a lot of "the real deal" practitioners and teachers to essentially dry up.

    - Hippie new age westerners buying 100% into the crap of MA as health and cultural expression combined with a typical Chinese mentality to let such nut cases believe whatever they want to believe (Chan philosophy excess baggage, IMO).

    - a lack of understanding of Chan's interrelation with Kung Fu in general.

    - Bruce Lee

    - kids growing up with Saturday afternoon chop-socky films aired on TV in the 80s.

    - myself and my mother


    ... and most importantly:

    - historical lack of venues to express results of training CMA using a level playing field (more Chan philosophy excess baggage, oddly, IMO).




    Over 100 years ago, Jigoro Kano started using fair and relatively safe competition matches to promote his beloved art of Judo. Regardless of all his other intentional contributions to MA development, the key element of a fair and level venue of competition not for glory but for personal "testing" of one's limits is one he inadvertently hit upon, IMO. That fucking guy was brilliant even when he didn't mean to be. :smile:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  8. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 4:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kat,

    I can totally get where you're coming from on that. That's why I threw that caveat out there. My rant was aimed at sceptictank not you. I only raised the issue of how you define a jab because there is some kind of implication that says, "It's incredible they survived all these years without a jab. Wow, western MA is da bomb. We like have jabs and all that and CMA doesn't."

    The whole implication that there is some great mystery to the jab without which your fighting would be incomplete is just ridiculous. I don't know why people bring that story up. I could write a damn book on the techniques that are not present in MMA even today. The standard argument is that it just goes to show that those techniques aren't that good or usefull or else all these professional atheletes would have figured them out and be using them by now. I just turn the argument around the exact
    opposite direction and show that the same logic implies that a jab must be pretty worthless or else those CMA folks of yore would have added it in. It's ESSENTIAL......if you want to box. Have you ever even seen Silva throw a proper jab in the ring? How about Coleman? There have been threads here before about how nobody jabs in MMA and those threads were out there in the main forum.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Nice pics btw. I was taught to throw the arm back like that too and always have hard time convincing people it doesn't open up your face to being counter punched at all.

    p.s.

    I am the wrong person to be writing up pi quan. I just picked it because it's a CMA thing most people would know. Xing Yi is not really my style.
  9. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 4:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Please name some of these guys who are pure kung fu, with no sanda or sports training.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50834
  10. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2007 5:28pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My final question to virus, before he leaves the thread, is 'why aren't people only trained in BJJ winning boxing, San Shou or kickboxing matches' ?

    And why is it that every bjj nutrider who never trains in striking (i.e. doesn't get punched in the face in training) think that their training is analagous to the people who fight under the BJJ/Gracie banner, but who obviously devote hours to working their striking and get smacked in the head in training ?

    It's not, and to jump into a CMA thread with 'why don't you guys do well in MMA' is nutriderism of the most deluded sort. _You_ guys don't do well at the top of MMA either, it's the people who obviously train quite differently to most of you ,as a full-time job, where BJJ is a subset of their training, who do.
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