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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 5:44am

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Big flaws in your anaolgy. BJJ is a part of MMA, nobody can do well without including BJJ. Kung fu isn't anything in MMA even though kung fu has striking as a major component. It's a fair question as the OP was asking how kungfu can be put on the map as a viable system, and to me the reason people won't take it seriosuly is becuase it got left behind in the evolution of MMA. Is that not pertinant to the discussion?
    Fair enough. Kung Fu can be and is used in MMA, it's just nobody seriously competes in MMA with no ground training any more, and for that they go elsewhere.

    To take an analogy, what you're saying would be like saying 'people who only study western boxing don't do well in MMA, therefore boxing sucks'. Well, we all know boxing doesn't suck, it's just not the whole picture.

    Well taught CMA with plenty of sparring can give you good standup and often incorporates good conditioning exercises which are very practical for somebody with no or infrequent access to a well equipped gym. Some CMA people also do dogbrothers like work with some of their weapons (although this is very rare).

    So the 'signal to noise' of good CMA schools to bad ones which just do forms is sadly very low, we all admit this here, but don't write off the value of the good ones just because they don't teach much if any groundwork. That would be like writing off boxing if boxercise was the dominant way in which it was taught.
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  2. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 2:45pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mut Sao
    ... unfortunantly you are equating good fighters with only sport fighting.... which i think is a bullshit line of reasoning. Can't speak for most KF linages but mine is rife with fighters of recent generations who have been involved in various nefarious activities.
    So you're basing whether a style creates good fighters by the alleged exploits of thugs and gangsters? This is what's called anecdotal evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mut Sao
    lets face it sport fighting is only another progression of sparring, excelling in sport fighting means you excell at ... well... sports fighting (which can be a great training tool for fighting, no doubt) While sparring and playing those games is key to developing fighting skill it is not the be all and end all of fighting.... it is a component.
    How else do you suggest testing and comparing your ability against other people? Sport fighting and cross competition is the best way I can think of testing your ability. If all I did was spar within the boxing gym or dojo, how else would I know what was out there? My world doesn't exist in a bubble and neither does my training.

    Edit: That doesn't mean I don't suck, though.
    Last edited by ojgsxr6; 2/06/2007 3:21pm at .
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 3:09pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ignore the practitioner of feudal chinese RBSD behind the curtain gentlemen, and please look in the new video thread for what you seek.
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  4. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 4:07pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    I can't even find where I referred to anything at all here as a "fight ender".

    It wasn't that you said specifically that any one technique was a fight ender, I'm just referring to the whole "In CMA we end fights in the first round!" thing. The thing is, pro boxing isn't about "scoring" and while not every pro boxer tries to KO someone in the first round, in order to wins round you have to win the judges favor with showing damaging hits. The long rounds tend to change the pacing, since no one wants to gass them out in the first of 10-12 rounds, but they don't really change the techniques as you still have to effectively HURT the other person to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    It's that kind of tiny box, the part where all the biggest chearleaders for BS have made up their minds so clearly that they have figured out what you said before you even typed it. That's why I have absolutely no intention at all of "defending" CMA. Don't really give a **** about these people any more. Not trying to couch stuff in a way that is more palateable to the nutriders.
    Ehh... ok. One of the main points of bullshido, as I understand it, is exchange of ideas between people from different backgrounds. Many of us may seem closed minded (and of course there are those who really just are) but it's mainly because we don't really understand where you're coming from because every kungfu person is too jaded to all us nutriders to make us understand. And, of course, there are always things that are going to send up red flags (compliant demos, talk of qi, so on and so forh), and it's going to get some people frothing at the mouth, but there are those of us who DO still enjoy a reasonable discussion (even if we say things like "crap" and "you people").

    If you don't want to discuss things with people outside of your clique, that's fine, but it's kind of a waste of bullshido.net and just creates more friction between you and everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    I'm here cuz I'm on vacation and I've got too much time on my hands and more than anything else because Monkey extended the invite again. Anyone asks questions, like the thing about the Xing Yi fists, yeah, I like to answer that **** if it's in my "field". Anyone got an axe to gring about somebodies suckage? I don't give a **** anymore. Grind it on someone elses ass. No longer my problem. I got more important things to worry about than the "street cred" CMA has got among the illiterate masses.
    I don't have an axe to grind, I just see martial arts from a kickboxer's perspective. Show me another perspective and I'll learn from it. Since I've been on bullshido.net I've actually gone from a total muay thai nutrider to actually defending kung fu and other stuff from time to time because I've been around people from here who were willing to give another perspective.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  5. Mut Sao is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 7:18pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How else do you suggest testing and comparing your ability against other people? Sport fighting and cross competition is the best way I can think of testing your ability. If all I did was spar within the boxing gym or dojo, how else would I know what was out there? My world doesn't exist in a bubble and neither does my training.
    .

    sparring is one way of testing your skill.... find people from different systems and go for it.... with these situations you don't require a strict ruleset.... more can be used. mutual consent is a great way. personally my training is not in a bubble either.... i have sparred MMA, KB, boxing, Karate, TKD and other KF people. Unfortunantly i have yet to spar MT people or grapplers, as i have as yet not networked with any.... the whole reason i came to this site was to organise throwdowns.... that seems a good way of getting in diverse sparring of varing levels and also to learn bits and pieces.... personally i have looked at shooto as a competitive ruleset... but accoirding to the rules.... only front of fist strikes are legal.... pretty sure no palms either.... that counts me out.... full cantact karate tends to be no striking to the head with fists.... again not suited.... on top of that i am lazy.

    have you had a look and spar with much KF? (granted much sucks but with guys that actually spar?)

    Edit: That doesn't mean I don't suck, though.
    ... ditto...
  6. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Spear Sister

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 7:29pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mut sao, there are a multititude of MMA sanctioning bodies out there. Don't just count it out because of shooto. Check out iscfmma.com for one. This is almost full UFC rules except no elbows for amateurs.

    if you want elbows I'm sure you could find an MMA promotion that will oblige.
  7. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 7:46pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mut Sao
    have you had a look and spar with much KF? (granted much sucks but with guys that actually spar?)
    My last solid beatdown was from a Kung Fu guy. I personally don't have video of it, but it does exist. But Tom can account for it.
  8. Mut Sao is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2007 11:54pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hi Anna.... the shooto comp was the only one i could find in Melbourne, i sort of gave up after that... i may check into it though thx for the tip.... i just need to get motivated to get fit enough. going into something like that would be fun... i suck on the ground and would love the challenge though... on the elbows, i can live withouyt them... but not having antthing but front of fist striking would possibally like training KB and then entering a boxing match

    ojgsxr6: cool.... i don't need the vid (though it would be nice to see) i trust your word for that... how was it for you? where you challenged? did you learn much? personally i find people are shocked a bit by the unusual style and methods i use (no not deep stances and animal looking stuff.) and that gives me an initial advantage.... anyhow i am glad you try sparring different skillsets.
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