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  1. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 1:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Putting the 'Do' into Karate-Do

    For those of you who don't know, I've been at a crossroads in my MA training for a few months now. I was part of a group who left my previous Sensei (with whom I had trained for 5+ years). We intended to go it alone, but over the last few months, it's become clear that we lack the resources to do so, if we want to continue to study traditional Wado-Kai Karate.

    To summarize a LOOOONG story, we now have an affiliation with a Sensei from our original style, but not our school. He came to train us yesterday.

    We spoke a lot about training an art vs. sport, and what that means. He used the term 'Do' a few times. In my previous training, this was rarely if ever discussed.

    My question to those who have some experience in this is: what is Do? I know it means 'The Way'. I've heard answers from 'Shut up and train' to some new agey, ki aligning crap.

    Is Do simply applying the lessons learned in the dojo to real life? Or is it something else? Is it something you think about or does it just happen on it's own?
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  2. Fitz is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 2:13pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cutting through the more mystistfying bits "Do" means roughly the same thing as Yoga: a set of methods which is pursued in earnest will lead towards Self Realization.

    When you read Matt Thornton discuss things like epiphanies from athletic activities or aliveness training as a kind of yoga that dispenses illusions and false-ego he's speaking of his Martial Arts path from the vantage point of a "Do."

    Anyone who attempts to spin more then that to the concept of "Do" is likely peddling BS in the name of Spirituality. Avoid these people like the plague.
  3. DCS is offline
    DCS's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 2:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Changing the suffix -jutsu for -do (or adding it like in the case of Karate) was one of the policies of the Dai Nihon Butokukai in the process of organizing the gendai (post-meiji restoration) martial arts and promoting the "bushido" in pre-war Japan.

    Later, Draeger used the self realization (do) vs self preservation (jutsu) dichotomy and things started to go crazy.

    Here is an iteresting article by D. Skoss.
  4. jtkarate is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 3:08pm


     Style: karate,judo,JJ,Aikido,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    originally posted by DCS
    Here is an iteresting article by D. Skoss.
    Very good article.


    originally posted by Feryk
    For those of you who don't know, I've been at a crossroads in my MA training for a few months now. I was part of a group who left my previous Sensei (with whom I had trained for 5+ years). We intended to go it alone
    just out of curiosity what was the reason you wanted to break away? Was the training becoming substandard or was it just certain aspects were missing that you were looking for?
  5. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 3:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jtkarate
    Very good article.




    just out of curiosity what was the reason you wanted to break away? Was the training becoming substandard or was it just certain aspects were missing that you were looking for?

    Another long story, but in short, I lost faith in the Sensei. He's starting to like money too much, and trusts his own people way too little. The training was good, but he was starting to get more into other things than Karate.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  6. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DCS,

    Thanks for the article. It makes more sense than anything else I've read.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  7. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 8:24pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, that was one impressive article.

    Oh, and on my side my Judo Sensei opts to simplify ANY philosophical debate over the meaning of various things like "What does DO or JU REALLY mean???" as "Shuddup and train" or "C'mere as I show you my interpretation of DO with this O-guruma" in which case the speaker often finds that DO means D'OH! <-- Bad joke, I know. Forgiveness please.

    And thus I always figured "Do" meant literally "do" as in don't think on it, just DO it. Take Judo and use it well and use Kano's teachings when and where applicable and stop sitting on your asses pretending to be Confucious. I personally like this description (tho' reading that article may have me rethinking it... until I get to Judo class :p )
  8. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 11:54am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.
  9. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 3:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.
    Sig material.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  10. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 5:06pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.
    If by "wreck" you mean turn styles into crap then sadly that's oft the case.

    If by "go around beating the ever-lovin' **** out of yourself and others so that you somehow gain a better understanding of the world for some random reason that only H2H combat brings" then you're thinking of "Osu" used by Kyokushin-kai. (Yes, I know Osu is also Jap punk slang for wassup)
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