What? You mean like Tai Chi or something like that? Like DCS said: vids would be nice. If not possible then meh, and I'll try to work it out, but they'd help alot. What it sounds like is you do breathing excersizes that are like alot of deep gut-breathing found in some arts for meditational purposes (of Japanese lineage) but that you include hand motions with them that are "Hidden" wrist escapes.
Originally Posted by glad2bhere
Hapkido has the same Aiki-jutsu rooks at Hakko Ryu JJ which I studied for 3-4 years and we have a lot of wrist escapes/locks/what-have-you but we've never incorporated them with meditative breathing, maybe Aikido does...
The problem I see with that is that yeah, the techniques are there, just like there's a lot in Hakko Ryu but we never tried them against resisting opponents and from what you seem to be saying is you guys barely know that they are there at all. I've heard Hapkido has Randori do you end up using them in that?
I know what you are saying and will try to make this a bit clearer. Just know that I have been in the Hapkido community for over 20 years and must sadly report that the community itself is its own worst enemy. There are huge numbers of folks who learn some material and then represent that the "know" Hapkido. There are also folks who have considerable depth in a few select areas of Hapkido material and know next to nothing about other areas. Having said all of that, let me see if I can help you out.
Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
The breathing techniques that are still used by Hapkido practitioners can be traced back to a few Korean sources such as Taoist breathing practices and contemplative practices such as SON Buddhism. In fact, it has become rather fashionable for people to get involved with the latest contribution to the Chinese CHI KUNG craze-- Korean GI CHEON. What seems to get lost is that within these breathing exercises are physical movements that have combat applications. So when people decide to forego the breathing material they also lose practice of these other physical movements. Now some folks, notably the hapkiyusool practitioners of the Hapkido family continue to examine these movements and Gawd bless themfor do it. However, most folks who ignore these movements do so because they don't seem to think that studying such obscure material will help their training.
As far as training against resistance, the yu sool level practitioners don't wait for an attacker to set themselves into a grab. However, the Hapkiyusool folks do this on a regular basis. Hope this helps. Thoughts?
Thanks for the clarification.
So have you done/tried any of these wrist escapes in randori, outside the dojo, or with at least and resistant partner in a "real" manner? How did they work? Did they work at all?
Not allowing yourself is all fine and dandy, but what if they don't let you not let them grab you (I know that sentence is convoluted, bare with me)? Will it work then? What types of techniques did you use/try? What was the situation? Granted you're a Korean art but Hapkido is basically Korean Aikido from Aiki-jutsu so these questions are relevant to the board, and also may help those of us who are in Aiki or Jujtsu or whatever who have not yet tried these escapes in Randori.
Actually I have done it both ways, Cheese:
Not all Hapkido is done the same way, and not all of those ways are practiced in the same manner by all adherents to a particular approach.
At the yu-sool level of Hapkido technique is all-to-offten a function of simple Physics such as Balance, Timing, Speed etc. These are called "attributes" andthe idea is to enhance these attributes in one's own execution while compromising them in the other guy. Regarding "wrist escapes" most yu-sool practitioners will not wait until a person has an accomplished grip before responding. The use of a grip early-on in yu-sool training is simply to make the attack a uniform presentation for the convenince of beginners. In time this will graduate in to punches, strikes, kicks and grads or all sorts. Most folks can stay at the yu-sool level of Hapkido their whole lives and never move up to the next level. My own teacher is an excellent example of someone who has made a career of only the yu-sool level of Hapkido.
At the hapki-yu-sool level of Hapkido the shift is from depending on Physics to that of impacting the neuro-muscular system of one's partner. Most folks view this as simply incorporating "pain-compliance" into the technique but it is actually much more. Use of odd or inconvenient vectors often induces awkward responses from the partner and these responses are exploited for the success of the technique. It is very common for these techniques to be done against a person who has accomplished a grip and heavily resists the technique as there are few other ways to determine if the execution is as precise as necessary. Effectively the technique succeeds because the defender is using his awareness of how the attacker will respond to the defender's actions to un-do the attack. Some of these "odd or inconvenient vectors" are what most of the "wrist escapes are about", but these are only a part of the equation. Is this of some help? Thoughts?
Last edited by glad2bhere; 2/22/2007 9:13am at .