Maybe some links to video or pics to help? I never learned anything in Japanes, all English terms and lots of stuff had no proper names.
I learned a ton of wrist locks, breaks, etc. In Aikido.
I have to say while in wrestling such things are good (as hand/arm control is key) most of the time you are going to use something like this in a No GI grappling situation (such as being in guard while your opponent tries to control your hands, etc)
I don't find it to be at all relevant to Judo grip fighting.
I have been fortunate as grip fighting is a major part of my practical randori, I learned from some of the better grip fighters in the U.S. (Fred Hand, Ato Hand, and Brian Olsen, all known for being able to get a dominant grip) in fact most Judo is won by the better gripper. If you are able to control someone's grip then you effectively control them.
That being said, most effective grip breaking has little do to with the wrist. (Even the standard sleeve/lapel grip is doing just above or at the elbow). I don't think those techniques transition that well in Gi based grappling.
However, they work great in No Gi grappling as a means of freeing your hands, and even getting a cheap little wrist lock submission on guys every now and then. I think it most cases these traditional locks are good in very limited situations.
(Keep in mind most of them were developed in the sword era, when gripping someone's wrist meant controlling a sword hand) They were developed so that a person could free their hand and continue hacking/slashing. However they transitioned over to empty hand techniques to keep with it's roots.
(Most of Jiujitsu was developed having the idea that you able to do it while were wearing armor, hence the lack of exaggerated movement in many of the throws)
I think they are great to learn, and the history behind them is cool. As far as practicality, I think they are mainly acceptable against unskilled people as sort of a parlor trick, or even in some LE situations, (I have used pain compliance and come alongs many a times while working security, I can't say that they were always successful though).
Katate-dori Sayunage: Pivot and bend down, lowering your center of gravity. Bring your hand to his throat and push forward.
Classic technique that kicks ass.
Judomofo: I completely agree with the gi-nogi situation. I'm a Dan in two wrist-grabby styles based off of aiki-jutsu (Hakko-Ryu JJ and Yoshitsune, neither of which do I train in, it's been about a year or so) so I figure I'd be pretty good at it and most wrist escapes just don't work in Judo when it's with the Gi, a few have worked when we have the "T-shirt Judo" classes once a month.
Besides, Judo has their own escape system specific to the gi's (Kumi Kata) that Judomofo would probably know more about that I.
Wha? Have a pic or video? Not sure what that looks like. Not being a dick, just can't see the image in my head. And did you try that in Judo randori or some other situation out of the aiki-dojo? Or is this Tomiki where you get your own randori similar to Judo?
I kinda described that wrong...you don't really pivot, it's more like you turn 90 degrees...in some cases you don't have to turn at all...
Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
and by pushing forward i mean you push against his throat
i have used that that technique outside the dojo and it has worked pretty well
Again, not being a dick I just can't create the image. Do you push the throat with the hand they've grabbed or the opposite one? Is it with a palm or knifed hand (since it's on the throat) what do you do with your other hand? Is there a metsubushi [sp?] (kind of set-up atemi)?
What was the situation outside of your dojo? Was it just backyard crappling with friends? A fight? Who was grabbing your wrist? Were they bigger/stronger or the same or smaller?
A video of the technique would be the best if you can make/find one.
Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
Same technique, slow paced and some possible variations at the beginning of this clip.
This technique is a classical aikido one but has different names (and flavours) depending on the particular aikido style.
Looks okay, thanks for the vid, man. Yeah, I could see this work under the right conditions. Not sure if it would work in randori and I'm taking the month off because of injury, but I think I'll practice this the aiki way (compliant partners) and a little tougher with some wrestler friends of mine and the capoeira crew and try it March, a little project for me to try (I'll make it a little different by adding a kosoto-gari):karated:
Originally Posted by DCS
Here is the Shudokan (Yoshinkan offshot iirc) version. You can see it from "static training" to RBSD mode.
Also i hope you recover soon from your injury.
Thanks again, this was a little clearer and I got to see a table knocked over by a fat white man in a Chinese restaurant which always makes my day. I like the Shudokan (They're called Tomiki too, neh?) they randori the way randori should be randori'ed.
Thanks, it's not bad, just a cracked rib. I'll be out for the month, that's it. I'm the third from my Holliston Dojo to get it (heavy-weight randori, harai-ogoshi into a brutal slam where he fell on me) it doesn't hurt but better to be sure I'm %100 before I head back to training (especially with the nature of Judo)