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  1. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:02pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What type of grip do you use here?

    The clamp type (typical finger and palm) or full handed, using the thumb? Sorry to add nothing but I am not sure what you guys are talking about.
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:35pm

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    What type of grip do you use here?

    The clamp type (typical finger and palm) or full handed, using the thumb? Sorry to add nothing but I am not sure what you guys are talking about.

    We are referring to have your arm seize when drawing a weapon OR during grappling. I've had people do 2 on 1, one hand finger and thumb gripping and Monkey Paw (without opposing thumb).

    Any and all.
  3. Lily2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:52pm

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     Style: JJJ, Kobudo, Kendo

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    pl4zMa - I practice Hontai Yoshin ryu

    Originally posted by pl4zMa:
    However, an attacker or sparring opponent who isn't a moron, can easily off balance you before you have a chance to react, making the ability to free hand all the more important.

    Thnk of Judo style randori where your grip fighting and they get a hold of your wrist /lower selve. There next move will be to pull you in and off balance to throw you. Don't think of static "Ok now Grab my Wrist" exercises. The Transistion of TeHodoki motions are important in regaining your balance.

    When it comes to judo randori, yes the importance of breaking the grip is a priority unless you want your ass on the ground. I move straight into the grip and use my feet and lower centre of gravity to transition into locks which flow into a throw/hold/sweep etc. (of course I'm going to break their grip eventually when they're thrown)

    And there are times when you know you're going down once your wrist is grabbed so a different set of skills come into play once you're on the ground. I'm a little confused whether we're talking training or real world application here.
  4. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 8:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    pl4zMa - I practice Hontai Yoshin ryu
    Not in London by any chance?



    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    When it comes to judo randori, yes the importance of breaking the grip is a priority unless you want your ass on the ground. I move straight into the grip and use my feet and lower centre of gravity to transition into locks which flow into a throw/hold/sweep etc. (of course I'm going to break their grip eventually when they're thrown)
    Spoken like a true Hontai Yoshin Ryu student :) (I am currently working on the Shoden Gata of Takagi Yoshin Ryu - Ishiya lineage)



    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    And there are times when you know you're going down once your wrist is grabbed so a different set of skills come into play once you're on the ground. I'm a little confused whether we're talking training or real world application here.

    A little of both. Its application in randori and "the real world"
    Last edited by Plasma; 2/01/2007 8:06pm at .
  5. Lily2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 8:23pm

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     Style: JJJ, Kobudo, Kendo

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    pl4zMa - my sensei is from the UK, so you got that right

    Are you enjoying learning the counters? Do you see how you can apply them and how do they compare to your existing knowledge.
  6. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 11:17pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    pl4zMa - my sensei is from the UK, so you got that right
    My Friend just moved to London is at the Hontai Yoshin Ryu Dojo there, that why I ask.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    Are you enjoying learning the counters? Do you see how you can apply them and how do they compare to your existing knowledge.

    Elebroate. What do you mean by counter. From what I see the Tagaki Yoshin Ryu (ableit different but VERY similiar) Shoden Gata doesn't have counters it primarly Ura Gyaku (Inner Wrist turn) into pinning techniques. Not all the technique as like that (ie. Koto) but no counters.

    When I think Counter, I think Koto Ryu OGyaku, which is a defense to Seio Nage, or the Shinobijutsu sub section of Shinden Fudo Ryu where you learn to roll and flip out of throws.
  7. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 10:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By escapes from wrist grabs you mean freeing your wrist without transitioning into a lock or something? In a MMA or all out street fight, if someone grabs my wrist is there any reason to "escape". A wrist grab is a real weak attack in a fight that allows anything goes. I'd say use your other hand to punch him in the face. Once they reach out for the wrist they are left open.

    As far as in a grappling match people will use two hands on my one wrist. I find the best way to escape that (they are setting up for an armbar or something from guard usually) is to place my captured wrist into the fold of my other arm's elbow and use that to pry out.

    Personally I feel grabbing the wrist while groundfighting to be inefficient and easy to break from. Much better grips are kimura grip an arm or control the forearm by the elbow.
  8. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 10:29pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, the modern application of your Te-Waza may be there even for non LEO's. Not everything is an all out fight and not every "attack" deserves a hook to the jaw or an RNC. I would imagine the wrist escapes are useful when in a less violent situation where force is still needed.

    Example, escorting a drunk (friend or otherwise), domestic dispute, lots of situations can arise where someone may try and stop the use of your hands by grabbing. These Te-Waza can help you regain control of yourself so you can put up a guard or defensive posture if the situation keeps escalating.


    Personally I have had people grab my wrist in which I used movements I learned in Kempo. (He was drunk and trying to take back his keys, which were in my hand). After breaking his grip I cranked down an overhook and brought him back inside.
  9. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 12:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by LI GUY 1
    By escapes from wrist grabs you mean freeing your wrist without transitioning into a lock or something? In a MMA or all out street fight, if someone grabs my wrist is there any reason to "escape". A wrist grab is a real weak attack in a fight that allows anything goes. I'd say use your other hand to punch him in the face. Once they reach out for the wrist they are left open.

    As far as in a grappling match people will use two hands on my one wrist. I find the best way to escape that (they are setting up for an armbar or something from guard usually) is to place my captured wrist into the fold of my other arm's elbow and use that to pry out.

    Personally I feel grabbing the wrist while groundfighting to be inefficient and easy to break from. Much better grips are kimura grip an arm or control the forearm by the elbow.
    I am more talking about someone grabbing your wrist in the pummel for control 1 hand on wrist, or they grabing the wrist and entering in for the Seio Nage.

    So for the 2 on 1 grabs you mention, by all means hit them, hell most of the Ko Ryu wrist grab stuff start with Atemi. However, I was more referring to the situation when they grab your arm to pull you down or grab your arm so their friend can pummel you. In that case, an escape can and should applied.
    Last edited by Plasma; 2/03/2007 12:56am at .
  10. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 1:05am

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     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having learned wrist manipulations in Kempo along with LI GUY 1, I find the most effective way to simply break wrist control is with wrestling. In a sport where hand control is a huge aspect, i think they have the proper sparring to unserstand and refine technique. The best one I can think of is the simple slap away.

    When they grab your hand, you turn your arm in whatever direction you need so that the open part of the grip (where the thumb meets the other finger tips) is facing the inside. Then you pull that hand in as you palm strike his arm away. You can step back while jerking your hand back to.

    Most manipulations of the wrist though will only work if you have some muscle. Guys can use it against other guys, even if they arent as strong. But a girl pulling it off on a guy is kinda hard, because we tend to realy overpower them. Instead of a wrist escape I would think striking with the freehand would be best to get away or going into a throw.

    Just watch a wrestling match though to see how they deal with breaking grips as they square off.
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