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  1. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2007 5:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Application of Classical Wrist Escapes

    Well as the Forum Mod (don't laugh!) I'll throw out a topic to start things off. And what better way then a GRAB MY WRIST thread!


    So in many of the classical Japanese Ryu-Ha there is a section of TeHodoki, wrist escapes. I know in Asayama Ichiden-ryu there is a large section of them. Many of these had application during the days when people carried swords, grabbing a wrist to prevent the draw. This could be still applicated when prevent someone, or having one some preventing your from draw your knife/gun.


    However, unless your LEO how often is someone grabing for your weapon or preventing your from drawing your own. So is there a more modern application to these Te-waza?

    I've found alot of this can easily be applied to grip fighting. When grappling, especially Judo, the first part usually is getting a solid grip or preventing your opponent from getting one. These Traditional TeHodoki had the purpose of remove and countering your opponents grip. Its reasons that application of such wouldn't be limited to getting to the draw, but apply to setting up for a throw.

    I have found that to be quite effective in getting your opponent to release, preventing you from getting into a bad/worse position.

    Just something to start the forum off. Please make better threads.
  2. Lily2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 12:23am

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    You've pretty much said it all.

    Being a girl, I'd probably be more likely to get my wrist grabbed by some tool so for me there are definitely situations where I can apply what I've learnt in JJJ.

    I think in a modern day context (not related to hindering weapon draw) that an attacker who grabs your wrist isn't being effective (unless he's got a knife to your throat). While his hand/s are tied up you've got the rest of your limbs to use, ability to close in on your attacker, opportunity to unbalance or if you're good enough, transition into a throw.
  3. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 12:47am


     Style: Judo

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    I've found the same in Judo, and this is really something I need to apply more in my game, especially for breaking sleeve-end grips.. which I find particularly annoying.

    In wrestling the "wrist grab escape" is very handy, since you'll prevent them from taking that particular handle on you.

    I feel like being familiar with those kinds of escapes should make your wrists and arms really difficult to grip and hang onto, and not too much else. I don't think the wrist grab escape is more effective for self-defense than, say, using your other hand to punch them in the nose.

    If you're just grappling, then after a while they'll just switch to some other grip or hold and throw you from there instead. =P
  4. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 2:19am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Well as the Forum Mod (don't laugh!) I'll throw out a topic to start things off. And what better way then a GRAB MY WRIST thread!
    Sigh... plAzM4, my initial thoughts were that I have become so (in?)famous that you are starting a thread about me. What a let down, it is not. GMW go cry at the corner.

    Quote Originally Posted by plAzM4
    I've found alot of this can easily be applied to grip fighting. When grappling, especially Judo, the first part usually is getting a solid grip or preventing your opponent from getting one. These Traditional TeHodoki had the purpose of remove and countering your opponents grip. Its reasons that application of such wouldn't be limited to getting to the draw, but apply to setting up for a throw.
    In my judo RAN-DORI experience, I don't really do much grip fighting as yet. Because:-
    1) When I spar with people better at me, I try to bring them down to newaza because it is where I am better at. I suxs at TACHI-WAZA (my throws usually only get me KOKA or YUKO points)
    2) When I meet people who are shittier than me, I just pick them up and throw them on the floor, mwa har har har (very bruttish I am afraid so)!
    Not much chance for me to experiment with wrist control in my sparring so far... might try more GRIP fighting in future.

    As for aiki-jutsu type of wrist locks, well if I were to execute it during judo RAN-DORI, I will be hansuku-make'd as the rules of judo says "No joints locks other than the elbow". And the aiki-do type locks are very conspicuous... can't really hide from the referee.

    GMW
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 9:30am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    You've pretty much said it all.

    Being a girl, I'd probably be more likely to get my wrist grabbed by some tool so for me there are definitely situations where I can apply what I've learnt in JJJ.
    I would agree. What Ryu of JJJ are you doing, so I know where you are coming from?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    I think in a modern day context (not related to hindering weapon draw) that an attacker who grabs your wrist isn't being effective (unless he's got a knife to your throat). While his hand/s are tied up you've got the rest of your limbs to use, ability to close in on your attacker, opportunity to unbalance or if you're good enough, transition into a throw.

    However, an attacker or sparring opponent who isn't a moron, can easily off balance you before you have a chance to react, making the ability to free hand all the more important.
    Thnk of Judo style randori where your grip fighting and they get a hold of your wrist /lower selve. There next move will be to pull you in and off balance to throw you. Don't think of static "Ok now Grab my Wrist" exercises. The Transistion of TeHodoki motions are important in regaining your balance.
  6. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 9:34am

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    As for aiki-jutsu type of wrist locks, well if I were to execute it during judo RAN-DORI, I will be hansuku-make'd as the rules of judo says "No joints locks other than the elbow". And the aiki-do type locks are very conspicuous... can't really hide from the referee.

    GMW

    Escapes, not locks. And escapes that counter into superior position.

    If you want to get into Aiki-jujutsu locking and small joint manipulation start a thread on it. I find them to be a nich item that work in the right circumstances.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 10:39am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^^ Such escapes and locks can be quite interesting in BJJ environments that cross-train with Judo. In such, the limitations on the type of grips and locks are far, far fewer than in Judo randori. What type of learning material exists for this topic? The only source I have (and I know of) on grip fighting is Neil Adams' "Grips" (if this is too divergent from this topic, please let me know :tongue3:)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 10:49am

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    ^^^ Such escapes and locks can be quite interesting in BJJ environments that cross-train with Judo. In such, the limitations on the type of grips and locks are far, far fewer than in Judo randori. What type of learning material exists for this topic? The only source I have (and I know of) on grip fighting is Neil Adams' "Grips" (if this is too divergent from this topic, please let me know :tongue3:)

    The material I am using is Asayama Ichiden Ryu TeHodoki Shoden and Okuden. There is a out of print book on the subject, that the only source I can think of in english.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 5:54pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm, could you share the title of that out of print book if you have it handy? I've found ebay, and sometimes amazon to be a great source for out-of-print books. I recently bought a judo book that was out of print - Championship Judo: Tai-Otoshi and O-Uchi-Gari Attacks (Ippon Classics). A bit overpriced ($59), but it is worth it.

    If an out of print book is worth the read (even if I never get a chance to fully study it and use it), I'll pay for it.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 6:36pm

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