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  1. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 10:30pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This kind of fighting will do O.K. in China, as long as Chinese fighters win most of the matches. If they start getting schooled by westerners and foreigners all the time- i.e., like K-1 for the Japanese, it will die a death. Believe me, they do not want a bunch of foreign athletes coming in, kicking the crap out of their local boys, especially the kung fu/sanda guys.
  2. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 9:07am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    This kind of fighting will do O.K. in China, as long as Chinese fighters win most of the matches. If they start getting schooled by westerners and foreigners all the time- i.e., like K-1 for the Japanese, it will die a death. Believe me, they do not want a bunch of foreign athletes coming in, kicking the crap out of their local boys, especially the kung fu/sanda guys.
    This statement is exactly right. They are looking to bring in foreign fighters right now, but they will only bring in ones that they think they can beat. If a foreign fighter wins, he won't be brought back.
  3. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 5:29pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    This statement is exactly right. They are looking to bring in foreign fighters right now, but they will only bring in ones that they think they can beat. If a foreign fighter wins, he won't be brought back.
    If they were really "looking for fighters", they would call up the guys from the UFC or Extreme or King of the Cage. It's pretty easy to find some legit guys. This whole thing reeks of set up. I remember Eugene Jackson going down to Brazil with some of my buddies, and being matched with the Ax Murderer- the referee was one of Silva's coaches. Jackson had to get his Jaw re-wired. The same thing happened when they had a bunch of American dillentantes to represent Muay Thai versus Sanda- the only real Muay Thai guys were the two Fairtex thai guys, who won both of there matches. I can assure you, they don't want Matt Hughes or Liddel showing up.
  4. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 12:08am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was brought in to act as an interpreter for a U.S. team fighting at a San Da event in China. Most of the guys on the team had little experience in real competition, hell one guy was not even a kickboxer he was shoot wrestler.

    The U.S. Team had one really legit fighter who was a title holder of some kind in CA. The Chinese decided to have him and their fighter do a sparring session the day before the fight to see how good this U.S. champ was. After which the Chinese changed his fight to an exhibition because it became obvious their fighter could not beat the American. All of the other guys got beat on decisions or knocked out.

    This is the same kind of thing that they will be looking for when inviting fighters for the Art of War. They will look at every application and say, "Can we beat this guy?" That's what will determine who gets picked and who doesn't.
  5. DevonHartigan is offline
    DevonHartigan's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 1:03am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really like their "open rules" without a pointsystem. Own your opponent, or it's declared a draw. None of that split decision crap.
    I hope it doesn't effect the safety of the fighters though.
  6. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 5:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Killing Moon,

    Get yer head out yer ass and actually google the thing linked on the site you linked. The "Art of War" MMA tournament in China is in it's 4th year now.

    new2BJJ,

    Climb out of your north-south long enough to pick up a book or something and know that the MMA thing in China IS dominated by foreigners. Andy Pi is not Chinese...at least not nationally. He might be ethnically. He's a BJJ guy, was a purple last I checked but that was a couple years ago. His couple of white dudes with blue belts totally schooled the competition. He's got local Chinese students too but his westerners are the most experienced.

    Ronin,

    This is the same kind of thing that they will be looking for when inviting fighters for the Art of War. They will look at every application and say, "Can we beat this guy?" That's what will determine who gets picked and who doesn't.
    Not likely. MMA is still very small time and very grass roots. There's really no need to do that sort of thing .....yet. At present, although enthusiasm is growing, experience is still lacking. 4 years is not "completly new" but it's "pretty damn new" IMO.

    "MMA" has literally become a new Chinese word in the past year but local mags have been featuring Crocop and Silva and so on for about 5 years or so. There's also still some big political hurdles like the fact that all sports competitions in China need to be run under the authority of the head of the sports department at the provincial level at least and sometimes the national authority. This has nothing to do with MMA vs. Sanda. This is just certain govt. officials not liking ANYTHING going on without proper authorization. SERIOUS respex needs to go out to Andy for getting the thing off the ground at all. A similar competition was held in Xi'an last year with their sponsorship. Lot's of little clubs are popping up but it's VERY grass roots.
  7. SongPower is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 10:36am


     Style: BJJ, FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very Cool. Since I'm in the area I'll be going to check out their next tournament on March 24th.
  8. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 12:35pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just going on what has happened with the San Da, and the very anti foreign attitude that is in just about every movie from China and Hong Kong. I'll wait and see what happens. If the above guy was the translator for the San Da event, I would think he knows a little about what he is talking about. I'll tell you this- if foreigners come in- i.e. White and Black guys, and consistently win, no one is going to keep coming.
  9. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 1:10pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuCowboy
    Killing Moon,

    Get yer head out yer ass and actually google the thing linked on the site you linked. The "Art of War" MMA tournament in China is in it's 4th year now.

    new2BJJ,

    Climb out of your north-south long enough to pick up a book or something and know that the MMA thing in China IS dominated by foreigners. Andy Pi is not Chinese...at least not nationally. He might be ethnically. He's a BJJ guy, was a purple last I checked but that was a couple years ago. His couple of white dudes with blue belts totally schooled the competition. He's got local Chinese students too but his westerners are the most experienced.

    Ronin,



    Not likely. MMA is still very small time and very grass roots. There's really no need to do that sort of thing .....yet. At present, although enthusiasm is growing, experience is still lacking. 4 years is not "completly new" but it's "pretty damn new" IMO.

    "MMA" has literally become a new Chinese word in the past year but local mags have been featuring Crocop and Silva and so on for about 5 years or so. There's also still some big political hurdles like the fact that all sports competitions in China need to be run under the authority of the head of the sports department at the provincial level at least and sometimes the national authority. This has nothing to do with MMA vs. Sanda. This is just certain govt. officials not liking ANYTHING going on without proper authorization. SERIOUS respex needs to go out to Andy for getting the thing off the ground at all. A similar competition was held in Xi'an last year with their sponsorship. Lot's of little clubs are popping up but it's VERY grass roots.
    Cowboy,

    You're right it has been around for about 4 years now, (although I personally knew Instructors in China as early as 1996 that were aware of the Gracies and MMA) like I said in an earlier post I have seen video of a small event at Andy Pi's place where his students schooled a bunch of Kung Fu/Sanda guys.

    You say that the MMA scene is currently dominated by foreigners but most of the vids I saw available on the ARt of War website were of Chinese Nationals fighting each other and one with a Japanese fighter that won his fight (from what I read twice) IMO opinion it is easier for them to accept foreigners winning, when these foreigners are living and training in China. When they start bringing in fighters from overseas who start dominating not only the Chinese fighters but the resident foreigners as well then we may start to see a problem. I feel to avoid this problem they are going to import fighters they feel they can beat. I hope I'm wrong, we'll just have to wait and see how it develops.

    It being mainly a grass roots thing right now is still a good thing that will hopefully grow, I just hope that they don't have the same kind of problems we are having in the U.S., i.e. a huge increase in the number of schools that are teaching MMA that do not have anyone qualified to teach it. I look forward to seeing the sport grow in China.
  10. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 11:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Andy only has a few foreign students but the ones he has seem to be pretty undefeated. That's what I was getting at. Of course it's mostly Chinese nationals fighting each other but that's because:

    1. it's in China.
    2. there's hardly any foreigners living here for any length of time training martial arts.
    3. it's in China.
    4. it's in China.

    Like how many Chinese nationals do you see at American uh....anything tournaments?

    new2BJJ,

    Sanda is in a completely different situation because it is a high profile multimillion dollar sport that sells out huge arenas with 1000's of people in the audience paying what for more Chinese people is a small fortune for the tickets. (think like if tickets to an American event were $300/seat) MMA otoh, is a small, largely unknown phenomenon with fights happening in places that in America we would not call an "arena" but would more likely be considered "a gym".

    The biggest affect MMA is having in MA in China that I can see is that it is just raising awareness of what REAL fighters are like. It's opening their eyes about the kinds of attacks that you might have to deal with. My "dashixiong" (most senior kung fu brother) has been getting big time MMA by satelite and in the past year has suddenly started talking about "anti-grapple" at dinner. It's not really "anti-grappling" though as he's a Taiji guy with a shuai-jiao background from even before meeting my Shifu. No ground game but WELL versed in the arts or throwing and standing submissions. The big advantage he has over most Chinese wathing MMA is just based on his Taiji, he can tell what's going on on the ground where most Chinese still tend to scratch their heads at a lot of stuff.

    Anyways, main point being that they are waking up to how well developed and how broad the technical base is in the west instead of thinking of Americans all as a bunch of John Wayne's throwing punches like in Bonanza.
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