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  1. maddog is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    73

    Posted On:
    6/08/2007 8:07am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is another case of no nothing do gooders interfering in something they do not understand. Yes martial arts needs tightening up, but this needs to be done by crap instructors being put on their arses and not by legislation that will only effect the real deal classes.

    Rant over.
  2. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
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    6,525

    Posted On:
    6/08/2007 8:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jawdy
    Hi all, this was brought to my attention in another thread, and thought it would be of use if others could see and notice it.

    It's called the UKCC (United Kingdom Coaching Certification) and is meant to help sports and coaches receive a government/council recognised qualification that would then make it easier for a club to recieve monies, training locations, insurance etc.

    The problem is, they only seem to recognise the large (and worse) martial arts, for instance "Karate" is in Phase 3 of their program.

    Have a read, make your minds up for yourselves - but if this does come into force, it'll certainly mean a hard time for MMA and non BS-smaller gyms

    The official website - http://www.ukcoachingcertificate.org/
    A campaign against it - http://www.r2choose.co.uk/

    (useful info pulled from the site - http://www.sportscoachuk.org/NR/rdon...ing_vision.pdf
    and - http://www.ukcoachingcertificate.org...ndorsement.ppt)

    http://www.r2choose.co.uk/gallery.html

    Haha, at least one of their biggest supporters, with his picture on their supporters page, has had a Bullshido thread about him.

    Seriously though, is this likely to be used as a sneaky way of banning MMA and other forms of full contact, by denying insurance to unrecognised clubs ? I know this government has made all kinds of anti-MMA and anti-Boxing noises in the past.
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  3. jimbo is offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1

    Posted On:
    6/08/2007 8:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi, I am a lurker here but I happen to know a little about UKCC certification and the one sport/one NGB plan from a different point of view. (Last year I worked for the NGB for coarse angling whilst they were implementing a lot of this stuff, worked with the development officers, met the UKCC guys etc.)

    The thinking behind requiring UKCC certification is to ensure a minimum level of coaching skills and H&S practice plus a PNC check (criminal records check). It is a kite-mark so that parents/teachers can be reassured they are getting a safe and quality service from a sports coach.

    So far so good... but who can train, qualify, assess & monitor coaches in each sport? The government has decided in its infinite wisdom that there can only be one NGB for each sport, once this is decided its easy; just let the NGB staff and the UKCC thrash out and agree a curriculum for coaches and start certifying. The NGB can then become the accreditation center for that sport and run and organise coaches as it sees fit.

    Of course, not all sports have just one NGB. In Angling there are different NGB's for different sectors (coarse/game/sea) but they formed an over-arching joint NGB structure in order to meet the governments requirements for recognition/funding etc. (slight dodge really but it seems to be working... kind of)
    Having done this NGB's are able to access funding to train coaches (all under the umbrella of 'participation in sport') and to run taster sessions to introduce people to the sport. Specific projects have also accessed funds to take angling into schools and after school clubs etc. along similar lines. All funding requires accreditted coaches and there are further schemes such as 'clubmark' which is a club kitemark (running in basketball/angling/badminton/golf iirc) which is particularly for clubs with under 16's coaching (certifies good practice etc.)

    The positives are to prevent rogue operators, encourage good H&S practice, discourage kiddly fiddlers etc. Access to funds (if you tick the right boxes) is nice too.
    The negative is giving a single NGB in each sport a very powerful monopoly on certifying sports coaches. Most sports have politics of some sort, this will give some sides a big stick to beat down on the other factions. For MA the one NGB/one sport model is a bit weird... but I doubt Sport England wants to do it any other way.

    As for what sport gets recognized when... olympic standing / participation / political lobbying are the pertinant factors :) Without an organised voice of some sort, preferably a National governing body with sport-wide credibility / governers / a constitution etc. it is hard to see a sport getting recognised. (You can see why the specific sports already in are in). For sports with different existing NGB's the biggest and most organised is likely to get the prize, winner takes all...
  4. jawdy is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bradford, W.Yorks
    Posts
    402

    Posted On:
    6/09/2007 11:34am


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Jimbo - welcome to BS... prepare for flaming :P

    Not from me though! The flamin I mean! Anyways, to my point - I agree with the idea of the qualification, the thinking behind it, the good points/ideas it'll bring etc... but I'm sure you understand where we're coming from, in that we are/were worried (and rightly so) that one larger organisation would control the distribution of such a certificate and thereby crushing the smaller clubs and independant martial arts.

    I have received an email from the government poll with an answer to our worries:
    http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page11880.asp
    From the text:
    "Independent martial arts groups have expressed concern that access to Judo qualifications may be limited to members of the BJA. Our position is clear. UKCC qualifications must be accessible to all. The BJA are currently working on arrangements to ensure that members of individual martial arts groups who have the necessary technical competence to coach safely are able to access the qualification."

    The little snippet that I've put here puts most of my worries about this to rest... but we shall have to see!
  5. PaDJW is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    20

    Posted On:
    6/09/2007 12:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The scariest thing I've found about this whole proposal is the attempt at a blanket classification of all martial arts as "sport".

    Great logic,

    "where do you teach your Ju-Jitsu m8?"
    "In the sports centre, down the road"
    "Ah, fantastic. So then, you got your UKCC SPORT Certification sorted out then?"
    "WTF?!?! I don't teach a SPORT! We have no competitions of any description!"
    " Ah, but!, the NGB says...."


    Instructors already have to jump through hoops to get a booking in any decent sports centre. Instructors and public liability insurance cover has to be shown every 6-12 months. Working with kids? Where's your recent police check? etc etc.

    It's also harder to get insurance if you are doing any form of serious sparring. What about teaching self defense to any sort of degree of effectiveness? To do that you need to pummel and get pummelled. There's a new generation of black belts being raised, who are basically being given one-way tickets to their nearest coma unit as soon as any half-decent street nut gets their paws on them.

    I blame the Judo, Taekwondo and Krotty camps. If they hadn't spent the last few decades determinedly turning their styles into a joke for the attaining of medals and trophies, then we wouldn't be at such a tragic point in time.

    I'm all for regulation and policing of those systems that attract the majority of wannabe Bruce Lee's, especially the kids, but don't stereotype my style because popular public opinion thinks the phrase "martial art" is synonymous with "sport".

    They need people on their panels capable of differentiating between the two. Sport with possible self-defense applications is still a sport, whatever way you look at it. Leave mine alone.
  6. Abusivemelon is offline
    Abusivemelon's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,610

    Posted On:
    6/09/2007 12:34pm


     Style: Lethargy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJA FTW BITCHES!!! Srsly though the government needs to leave us the **** alone.
  7. PaDJW is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    20

    Posted On:
    6/09/2007 12:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Scott Mcarthy and his gestapo BJA can go sod off.

    "Join my old boy network, government sanctioned organisation and pay us money to be dictated to with regards to what you can and can't do, or else you cannot teach. Ever. The only martial arts are OUR martial arts!! Bwahahaa!"

    Maybe we can send the ninjers round to his house.
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