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  1. DaveTart is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 11:05am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Lau Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Sauce
    So he is a Shihan of Kempo Ju Jitsu - KJJBA
    7th Dan from Fighting Arts Of Great Britain
    Implied 3rd Dan in "Kito Ryu" Ju Jitsu
    Two years in "Juko Ryu" Ju Jitsu
    1st Dan in an unamed style of Ju Jitsu
    Also promoted along the way in some style of JJ by Sensei Bill Heffer, again details unconfirmed, and Mike and students are not exactly rushing to do so.

    Seems like he's transferred his grades all over the shop. But between different styles of JJ is alarming. Would love to confirm all the above too.
    He could've started in Juko Ryu, then moved to Kito Ryu (up to 3rd) then started his own style - up to 7th. That would make sense and not be too crazy I assume?
    (ie the only dubious thing then is the grades awarded to himself/via the FABO's or whatever they are called).

    Statement:
    The chicken was given to me by Dominic McCarthy, manager of KFC, with whom I ate for many years."

    Question:
    Was the chicken KFC?

    Answer:
    A) Yes
    B) No
    C) Not enough info to go on.

    C - basic logic tells us that "the chicken was KFC" is unanswerable from the given question. From the statement above it is impossible to determine who Cooked the chicken.

    Anyway, aside from this logic fun (btw found this: http://www.sfsu.edu/~testing/CriticalThink.html)

    The important issue is if he is passing it off as KFC. So far, he isn't (but the mistake could be made - so clearly he SHOULD be less ambiguous) let's ask him directly? maybe in a less abrupt manner than previously?
  2. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 11:26am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For fucks sake, enough with this chicken metaphor. Trust me, if the investigation isn't thorough or draws illogical conclusions then we will call the team on it, I'll be the first.

    A better question than this idiotic and drawn out KFC thing is the simple question: "How likely is it that the Head of McCarthy's organisation doesn't know about the awarding of a 5th Dan in a style that his organisation is based on?" Logical answer, not likely at all, but further investigation may be warranted.

    Sochin has already said he's been in contact with more than one member of the Zen Judo people, apparently they haven't even heard of him. Notice 'haven't heard of him' not 'know him but were unaware he was graded by McCarthy', these people who presumably trained for years with McCarthy have never heard of him at all.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  3. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 11:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you now or have you ever been an eater of chicken which you know or reasonably should have known was cooked at KFC?

    I think you're misunderstanding my focus, DaveTart. I am not saying that he did/didn't get graded in Zen Judo - what I'm saying is that his statement is made in such a way as for someone to reasonably assume that his rank was in McCarthy's organization.

    If someone introduces themselves to you and says, "I went to Snot Hill University and got a degree in Anatomy Analysis and Destruction," you don't critically analyze it for hidden content. With that sentence as an example (as a parallel to the 5th dan comment), nothing EXPLICITLY says that the degree was from Snot Hill, but the IMPLICATION is that it was. If he is using such phrasing in an attempt to encourage such implication than he is being deceitful, plain and simple.

    To go with the example you cited:
    Question:
    Was the chicken KFC?

    Answer:
    A) Yes
    B) No
    C) Not enough info to go on.
    I would change the question to:
    "Would it be a reasonable implication to assume that the chicken was KFC?" I believe the answer is quite a solid yes.

    EDIT - Just saw your post, Iscariot, so forgive me for beating a dead horse. I'm trying to make a point about the intent to deceive.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  4. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 11:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    For fucks sake, enough with this chicken metaphor.
    Yes, as a vegetarian, I'm feeling oppressed.

    Sochin has already said he's been in contact with more than one member of the Zen Judo people, apparently they haven't even heard of him. Notice 'haven't heard of him' not 'know him but were unaware he was graded by McCarthy', these people who presumably trained for years with McCarthy have never heard of him at all.
    In the interest of openness and fairness, this is an opportune time to mention I've received an email from a member of Zen Judo who thinks he remembers him, but not his grade. They also think he left the organisation some time ago. They can't provide any details at this point, as it was around 15 years ago they remember him from.

    It doesn't add anything concrete to either side, doesn't confirm his grade, but it is at least one person who thinks he's heard of him.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  5. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 11:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It doesn't add anything concrete to either side, doesn't confirm his grade, but it is at least one person who thinks he's heard of him.
    In a smallish organization, I would expect 5th degrees to be a little more popular than "I think I've heard of him." I suppose that depends on the amount of time the person who thought he recognized the name has spent in the organization, though...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  6. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 12:47pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    Yes, as a vegetarian, I'm feeling oppressed.
    I'm disappointed, I thought you were a reasonable human being.

    In the interest of openness and fairness, this is an opportune time to mention I've received an email from a member of Zen Judo who thinks he remembers him, but not his grade. They also think he left the organisation some time ago. They can't provide any details at this point, as it was around 15 years ago they remember him from.

    It doesn't add anything concrete to either side, doesn't confirm his grade, but it is at least one person who thinks he's heard of him.
    Now would be a good time for boyo (who no doubt has people monitoring this) to be more forthcoming with details unless he has something to hide.

    Where does this thread come on the Google rankings?
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  7. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 2:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, here's how I see it. Feel free to correct me.

    1. Our guy advertised his fifth dan judo on a site promoting his martial art. Whether anyone feels that his judo rank is irrelevant because he's teaching jujitsu, not judo, is beside the point. By putting it up there he's implying that it's relevant to prospective students (who in all likelihood are laymen).

    2. Our guy was fifth kyu in the BJA in 1995. The founder of Zen Judo died sometime 1995. By the end of 1995 our guy has been promoted by the founder of Zen Judo to fifth dan. Erm...

    3. Zen Judo, I'm still reading about this style on Judoforums. By all accounts they are fine, stand up people, however their training does appear to omit (or at least strongly discourage) a very fundamantal aspect of judo training, randori and shiai (the heretics are defying Kano!). 5th dan judo implies very different things than 5th dan Zen Judo, so even if his rank is legit our guy is still lying by omission.
  8. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 2:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Where does this thread come on the Google rankings?
    Third when you search for the style name. It's not on the first page if you search for "Shihan Mike Johnson" and searches for "Mike Johnson" are almost pointless.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  9. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/02/2007 5:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just for clarification, a member of the BZJFA kindly took the time to email this ammendment after reading the thread:
    The British Zen Judo Family Association (BZJFA) was not founded by Shihan McCarthy, but by Shihan Andrew Millard BEM, who had taken on leadership of Zen Judo following Shihan McCarthy's death.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  10. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 2:58am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    Just for clarification, a member of the BZJFA kindly took the time to email this ammendment after reading the thread:
    The British Zen Judo Family Association (BZJFA) was not founded by Shihan McCarthy, but by Shihan Andrew Millard BEM, who had taken on leadership of Zen Judo following Shihan McCarthy's death.
    Excellent, concise information is what we're after. I think the only thing we need to know further from the BZJFA is an answer to the question "Is is possible that the late Mr. McCarthy promoted someone to 5th Dan in Zen Judo without the knowledge of his other senior Dan grades?"

    The BZJFA should be congratualted on their openness with information, if Mr. Johnson had a similar quality then I feel that this would have all been resolved by now.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
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